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My mom has dementia and her assets total over 1 million. Should I hire an elder law attorney who is going to charge 10% for the 1st year for a life care plan ?
I am just guessing that she didn't have a POA appointed, and that the Elder Law Attorney is offering to manage her payments and her estate. That can be so costly and I have heard anywhere from 5% to 20% listed. People don't need that kind of heavy duty help, as you know, DollyMe, with your own expertise, so I am a bit worried they are being led down a primrose path here with an attorney who, yes, can do this, but do they NEED it. I would love to know as well what the POA and the status of the estate in will or trust situation is. I know you could help her so much more with that knowledge.
Of course not. You should hire an elder care attorney to answer questions when you need them answered on a basis of per hour fee. Do know that Lawyers are very very expensive, anywhere from 300 to 700 an hour across the nation. So you come down now to what you want to do. Does someone have POA and Trustee or Trust for your Mom with Dementia? If not someone must now be appointed her guardian. You will need letters to the court from her doctor explaining she cannot handle her own financial assets now. Then the lawyer (on a per hour basis) helps you to go to court to have appointed the person best for and most WILLING to take on this enormous task. 1 ml is a sizeable estate. Dependent on what your Mom did when well (create a trust? create a will?) this will be easier or harder. The person who is appointed POA for financial has a big task and must keep meticulous records. I have taken on both tasks for my brother, and it is an undertaking. I cannot honestly imagine where this 10% comes from unless you are asking a lawyer to handle the estate. That would be very very costly. A fiduciary appointed by the court would be less. But I would think a family member can do it with help and guidance, which the monies in the estate pays for. That's my advise after becoming the POA and Trustee for my brother. He was, however, not demented at the time and was able to appoint me, meaning that the costs of it, papers and all, amounted only to about 3,000.00 total in California, and expensive state. Good luck and hope you will update us.
Yes, attorneys are in business to make money, big money. If anything, I would talk to an estate planner, they have a lot of answers for a lot less. Pay them by the hour, a couple of hours you should have the answers you need. Paying 10% is ridiculous. 1M is a good amount of money, but, not properly invested, and going to AL, it will go fast. Presently my step father is paying 6K a month, he will make it as we have his money invested, we pull dividends to pay a portion of his monthly rent, the rest is covered by SS and a small pension.
I don't see why you need an attorney unless you are trying to protect assets.
If its just to make sure the million goes far enough for her care, then a good financial planner. Even a CPA might be able to help.
If Mom goes to a AL or Memory Care, it can cost up to 10k a month so in 10 years her money is gone. You are going to pay the lawyer 100k a year to take care of the money? Thats 10 or more months of care. And if he keeps charging Moms money will keep dwindling. Unless, her interest on investments offsets his charges. But then, too me, its still a waste of money. And what is he going to do for that...again I would talk to a CPA.
True enough, but for our elders, often in their 80s, with good CD rate it can be enough to get them through their lives, which is what it was intended for. So many people out there dealing with the care of their elders with absolutely nothing at all, and with depending on medicaid and the facilities that will accept it.
Thank you all so much for the information . Mom does have a will and POA which were drafted by a regular attorney . This elder care attorney says he is trying to protect her money and wants to change the POA so it allows “gifting “ . I feel 13500 for the first year is too much but i am afraid that all her assets will be gone if she has to go to a facility .
Don't give the management of her money to an attorney, this is a business for them. Do not allow gifting, it can deplete her assets, there is no reason to do this. This will open Pandora's Box. Please talk to an Estate Planner and a IRS tax Enrolled Agent. I am an Estate Planner, so I do know how a local one can help you to decide. Find out where her assets are. Properly managed she will have enough money to take care of herself in AL.
How long ago did you sign the retainer? I would back out, yes. What can he/she do? Sue you? I think they would not like to go to court and say what they have asked of you in a confused and trying time, and suggestions that you do the whole "gifts thing". Just back out at once, and follow where it goes from there. I am glad you did not pay for the retainer. I hope someone here will know a bout signing out chances, but the fact is this is something you do not want to go forward with. I would take my chances before a judge before I would with this attorney were it me, and just from the little I have heard. You also do not want someone to get you into this protecting of assets thing, trying to get around paying for care; that will lead you into a world of trouble for which you will NEED an attorney. I am not liking this more the more I read. I so agree with DollyMe, who, if I am not mistaken as some experience in estate management, and with Barb who suggests a fee for service attorney paid by the hour. While a million seems a lot it is not in today's standards Bill Gates. It will, however, invested as they say, care for your Mom for all her life. And that is in SAFE funds such as CDs. I would never gift away an estate and then depend on the state to give care to my elder, as it will not be the same care you can now afford. This money was saved by your parents for their care. Guard it with your life.
You don't "protect" her assets. Her assets are spent for her care. Cash assets and assets earning no money go first toward her care. You decide which assets are used first. You fund her main account, and the Assisted Living will take funds out monthly for her care. You may require advice. That's great, and that's fine. Get that advice on an HOURLY basis. No one who says they want 10% of her money is protecting her assets. They are simply transferring them to their own accounts. Your mother has an estate worth 1 ml. None of us can know what that consists of. YOU will find out what that consists of. Then you will martial that money to earn MORE money, just as you would were it your own money. And meanwhile you will pay for her care out of that money. It is there and was saved to care for her in her old age and that is what you will be doing with it now. Start by looking at safe CDs. You can likely make about 3% on any money in a CD. That money, along with social security, is earned for your Mom and none of the principle is risked. Figure it out. Sit with a pencil. Figure out how much liquid asset she has, how much it can earn, and how much expense she will have monthly. It is a process. Buy books on POA and Trust management, many of them on Amazon. See Dolly's note below. You are much better off with estate management folk, who will give you lots of advice. It is a learning process. Plunge in and remember the idea is to SAVE HER MONEY FOR HER. That means not giving 10% of it to some lawyer who is promising you he can care for her by giving away her money to others in "gifting " schemes.
Wow 😮 that is the highest fee I ever heard of! Get another opinion from another Elder Law Atty ...the one I used charged $ 7,500 for Medicaid home care (which didn’t work out...too complicated to go into) & if she did nursing home application, $10,000 more. It involves note payable to SNF & a penalty period for transfers that Medicaid counts as gifts. Anyway, 10% sounds crooked. But you can probably put her assets in a trust.
By proceeding, I agree that I understand the following disclosures:
I. How We Work in Washington.
Based on your preferences, we provide you with information about one or more of our contracted senior living providers ("Participating Communities") and provide your Senior Living Care Information to Participating Communities. The Participating Communities may contact you directly regarding their services.
APFM does not endorse or recommend any provider. It is your sole responsibility to select the appropriate care for yourself or your loved one. We work with both you and the Participating Communities in your search. We do not permit our Advisors to have an ownership interest in Participating Communities.
II. How We Are Paid.
We do not charge you any fee – we are paid by the Participating Communities. Some Participating Communities pay us a percentage of the first month's standard rate for the rent and care services you select. We invoice these fees after the senior moves in.
III. When We Tour.
APFM tours certain Participating Communities in Washington (typically more in metropolitan areas than in rural areas.) During the 12 month period prior to December 31, 2017, we toured 86.2% of Participating Communities with capacity for 20 or more residents.
IV. No Obligation or Commitment.
You have no obligation to use or to continue to use our services. Because you pay no fee to us, you will never need to ask for a refund.
V. Complaints.
Please contact our Family Feedback Line at (866) 584-7340 or ConsumerFeedback@aplaceformom.com to report any complaint. Consumers have many avenues to address a dispute with any referral service company, including the right to file a complaint with the Attorney General's office at: Consumer Protection Division, 800 5th Avenue, Ste. 2000, Seattle, 98104 or 800-551-4636.
VI. No Waiver of Your Rights.
APFM does not (and may not) require or even ask consumers seeking senior housing or care services in Washington State to sign waivers of liability for losses of personal property or injury or to sign waivers of any rights established under law.
I agree that:
A.
I authorize A Place For Mom ("APFM") to collect certain personal and contact detail information, as well as relevant health care information about me or from me about the senior family member or relative I am assisting ("Senior Living Care Information").
B.
APFM may provide information to me electronically. My electronic signature on agreements and documents has the same effect as if I signed them in ink.
C.
APFM may send all communications to me electronically via e-mail or by access to an APFM web site.
D.
If I want a paper copy, I can print a copy of the Disclosures or download the Disclosures for my records.
E.
This E-Sign Acknowledgement and Authorization applies to these Disclosures and all future Disclosures related to APFM's services, unless I revoke my authorization. You may revoke this authorization in writing at any time (except where we have already disclosed information before receiving your revocation.) This authorization will expire after one year.
F.
You consent to APFM's reaching out to you using a phone system than can auto-dial numbers (we miss rotary phones, too!), but this consent is not required to use our service.
Run from this one.
If its just to make sure the million goes far enough for her care, then a good financial planner. Even a CPA might be able to help.
If Mom goes to a AL or Memory Care, it can cost up to 10k a month so in 10 years her money is gone. You are going to pay the lawyer 100k a year to take care of the money? Thats 10 or more months of care. And if he keeps charging Moms money will keep dwindling. Unless, her interest on investments offsets his charges. But then, too me, its still a waste of money. And what is he going to do for that...again I would talk to a CPA.
can we still back out ?!
Start by looking at safe CDs. You can likely make about 3% on any money in a CD. That money, along with social security, is earned for your Mom and none of the principle is risked. Figure it out. Sit with a pencil. Figure out how much liquid asset she has, how much it can earn, and how much expense she will have monthly. It is a process. Buy books on POA and Trust management, many of them on Amazon. See Dolly's note below. You are much better off with estate management folk, who will give you lots of advice. It is a learning process. Plunge in and remember the idea is to SAVE HER MONEY FOR HER. That means not giving 10% of it to some lawyer who is promising you he can care for her by giving away her money to others in "gifting " schemes.