I have talked to my mom recently about assisted living. She tells me she doesn’t want to do that. She would rather move back to her home, and live alone. Any advice?

In order to know how to deal with this you need to know facts. What you describe sounds like she either has hearing loss or a comprehension issue. If she was "always a narcissist" then maybe this isn't the right forum because we're not psychiatrists and there's too many variables we can't know. Only you know.

That being said, and since you say she change a lot right before your father passed, then let's assume she's having some sort of age-related decline.

- how old is she?
- is anyone her PoA?
- does she have any other medically diagnosed health issues, like diabetes, COPD, etc.?

Your mom needs an exam to discount that her behavior change is not due to problems that are not cognitive, like: a UTI, thyroid, vitamin deficiency, dehydration, stroke, depression, tumor, etc. Once these are discounted then she can be give a cognitive and memory exam. She should also have her hearing tested and get hearing aids if needed. It will be very difficult for her to manage her care if she can't hear anyone. And definitely be impossible for her to live by herself.

Once you know what's going on then you can help her make decisions. You may want to take her to an AL local to you so she can see that the newer ones are really nice and have lots to offer. Many times elders just remember nasty old NHs from decades ago and need to know things are different now.

In the meantime, it will help you to educate yourself about dementia (since this is likely her issue). Go to YouTube and watch some Teepa Snow videos. You will need to interact with her differently in order to keep your relationship more peaceful and productive.

Finally:

Rules for engaging our loved ones with dementia:

1) Agree, do not argue

2) Divert, do not attempt to reason

3) Distract, do not shame

4) Reassure, do not lecture

5) Reminisce, do not ask “Do you remember…?”

6) Repeat, do not say “I told you”

7) Do what they can do, don’t say “you can’t”

8) Ask, do not demand

9) Encourage, do not condescend

10) Reinforce, never force


The overall goals should be to:

1) keep them as calm and peaceful as possible 
     (because they are less and less able to bring themselves to this state on their own)

2) keep them physically protected in their environment and from predatory people

3) keep them nourished with healthy foods that they will accept without fighting or forcing

4) keep them in as good a health condition as is possible, that their financial resources will allow and within their desires as expressed in a Living Will (aka Advance Healthcare Directive) 

5) keep them pain-free as possible and within their desires as expressed in a Living Will (aka Advance Healthcare Directive)

The caregiving arrangement needs to work for both the receiver and the giver. If it is onerous to the caregiver, then the arrangement is NOT working. Alternative types of care must be considered to avoid caregiver burnout.

https://www.agingcare.com/questions/ive-changed-been-depressed-since-shes-moved-in-9-months-ago-470111.htm

This is you post from Sept 2021. Why did you not do something last year? There were 2 posts that month. You said her stay was only temporary because of a hospital stay. Would be nice to know how old Mom is.

Maybe you and husband need to sit down with her and bluntly tell her "this arrangement is not working." Her staying with you was only temporary until she got back on her feet. Your home is not big enough to continue her living with you. So she needs to figure out what she wants to do.

See if there are any independent living apts near you. These usually provide meals in the cost of rent. Also, activities and transportation. ALs the same thing but with help if needed. If she is serious about moving back home, let her. Find out what services are provided in that area. Its only been 2 yrs, she may be more comfortable there because its familiar.

I may first try to get her to a PCP for her yearly Medicare exam. There may be something physical going on, labs will show this. Ask that her hearing be checked. It could be wax build up. If this "change" was really something new, it should be checked out. Depending on her age, she could have been covering up the real her. There is some decline as we age and the filters go by the wayside.

I doubt very much she will carry through on her threat. She is trying to get you to back off. You need not to. The sad truth is that you have made your home her home, both realistically and legally. It will be hard to get her to move into care. Tell her if she chooses to move on her own you will assist her, but that you are setting time limit and this move has to be completed in the next three months.

She came into my house and wanted me to do everything the way she did things and she only spoke to me as if I were a caregiver not her daughter. By not hearing me I meant that she doesn’t want to hear where she has hurt me and she lacks empathy. She has a bad attitude. She’s very well taken care of but thinks negatively and judges constantly. It’s being projected out onto us. It’s not an easy situation but she refuses to really listen to my concerns.

It doesn't matter if your mother is 70 or 103 years old. It's time for her to move out now b/c she's overstayed her welcome. Period. IDK what's wrong with her, whether she has dementia or just 'selective hearing', but lacking empathy is a hallmark of dementia. Her not being able to understand YOUR position or your pain indicates a lack of empathy on her part which CAN mean she's suffering from dementia. But I would guess it's not bad enough to keep her out of Assisted Living and force her into Memory Care. So give the woman a move out date: say 60 days from today. Offer to help her find a new place to live, and then do that. And agree with her when she tells others you want her out: YES you DO want her out b/c she's lived with you for long enough. What do you care what others think about you? If they want her, THEY can take her in to live with them, how's that? If not, butt out.

In order for you to get her out of your home, you'll have to take on the role of being an even WORSE daughter than you already are. Also, who cares? She's not appreciative of your efforts or happy with you as a daughter anyway, so what's the difference if she's a bit MORE unhappy? No difference.

Go scout out the local ALFs and then give her a choice of which one she'd like to live in. Yes mother, I'm The Bad Guy, I accept it, now off you go. I love you but I need my life back & my privacy now.

IDK if she's capable of moving back into her home and living alone? If so, that's a great idea. Move her back into her house & offer to set up in home caregivers to come in daily to help her out. On her dime, of course. And you can set up other services for her too, like housekeeping, food delivery, etc. PROVIDING she is capable of living alone. If not, then AL is the way to go.

Get tough, lay down the law, and give your mother a move-out date right away. Then stick to your guns and make it happen. Otherwise, she'll be with you until the day she dies, with you complaining about it and never making any progress at all. Nothing will ever be her fault and everything will always be your fault, so let this eviction be your fault too.

Good luck.

I wasn't sure what the question was, but sense growing resentment that Mom is living with you?

Cher, here are my observations - for your thoughts.

"I mentioned to her about moving but she fights it".

Of course. She is comfortable where she is. She is with family, has low bills, has everything she needs.

"In front of my brother she mentioned that I wanted her to move."

So? Why does that matter?

Is there pressure from your Brother to be Mom's caregiver? Are you female? Is that a factor?

"It’s always the other person, never her".

Shrug. 'Whatever' to that juvenile attitude. (Can't reason with un-reasonable people).

Right now you may be in a cloud. We could call it fog.
- You will benefit from a clear view of your situation.
- Then start to decide *what you want* from what is possible/available/affordable.
- Then start plans towards that goal.

At the momement your story seems to contain a small seed of a WISH that Mom will move out. I get that - gotta start somewhere!

A little wish won't be enough on it's own to accomplish what you want.

💫🌧️🌱☀️🌳

Cher68,

You have to get your mom out out of your home and I think the 60 day limit suggestion is a good one. How you and your husband initiate this conversation is yours to decide, but it must be done, and soon.

If your mom absolutely refuses to move into an ALF even after visiting one or two, you have to stick with your date certain for her to move out of your home - which is the ONLY viable option here - and assist her with that move and aid her in setting up what services are available and that she can afford. She's saved untold thousands by living with you in your family home and now it's time for her to pay for her cares.

Families are messy and you were likely the Scapegoat in your familial dysfunction. If your mom has always been an NPD or if this is apparent only now with advancing dementia, it does sound as though your siblings could care less about your feelings, just like your mom. Be that as it may, you cannot care about their views of you; you're a grown woman in your own right and have complete say on your boundaries, esp in your own home and marriage. Two years is a very long time to have put up with all of this and as long as you have your husband's support (even if you don't), you do what is best for your wellbeing. You're drained beyond words and this situation cannot continue. You have to make yourself stop caring about what your sibs think or say about you and your retort is that unless they are willing to take her in, they can zip it.

She quite likely cannot make it in her home, but if that's the only carrot you can dangle to get her out of your home, then facilitate that move. To cover your bases, you may want to notify the local or state aging services and let them know the situation. Get her moved back to her home prior to calling a home care agency, btw, because they will refuse to admit her to their services if she is unsafe with in-home cares and you don't want that to be an obstacle to her moving out of your home.

If she succeeds for a period of time, great. If not, then you do not, for one second ever entertain the possibility of her moving back in with you, she goes into care. You can keep and eye on her or have another sib do so and this requires eyes on her, not phone calls. Once she is failing at home, then you step back and have someone else take this on. She'll need to go into a care facility and you're already the 'bad daughter' so why take on more? Whomever among you is her DPOA will have make the decisions on her living arrangements going forward.

Have you been paid anything for the care you've provided for the past two years and other costs incurred? Likely not and you may want to consider whether or not to open that can of worms involved in asking for retro compensation. In hope you're not her designated DPOA because the dynamics seem hopeless now and will likely become much worse. If your sibs are open to a family meeting, you may want to arm yourself with recordings of her true behaviors in your home, all those things that others deny or don't see.

You will come out of this numbness and fog once she's out of your home and you'll begin to lighten once the arrangements are in motion. You have gone well above and beyond and should never feel guilty about saving your own life and sanity.

I wish you and yours the best.

The answers here are helpful and this is what I did. I was the adult in the room when I was caring for mom at home. She didn’t like it so much. She was in denial of her abilities and inabilities. There were arguments but mostly her pushing back on agreements she made with me and then didn’t want to do. (Eating 2 meals a day-she didn’t want to eat OR not sleeping or walking-she didn’t want to rest or exercise as the doctor ordered).
This lasted about 5 months. It was stressful but it was for her best health and it was hard for me to always be on and be the adult. I looked for facilities and found reviews and prices of ones she could afford. I prayed a great deal about this wondering if this was God’s best plan…. Then I planned a trip for an event and told mom that I could not leave her alone, no one was going to live with her and she had a choice to look and choose a place to stay for a few months or I would have adult protective services evaluate her and she would be in their care. She agreed to look. She was pleasantly surprised! She moved in that week. She loved it so much that she has been there 2 years as of now. HINT/TIP: do not get the extra care of the facility if they do not communicate with you if she refuses care (showers, reminders). I paid for that and it was a waste of money. I got her a private carer for 3 days a week 1-5 and that covered 2 meal escorts and 3 showers and lotions and exercises (walking or going to an event). That person reports to me and eventually I got mom 7 day a week 1/2 day care from 2 people.
I don’t think it was that fun living with me as the adult in the room. I love my mom but I know that the dysfunction she had was bad for her and me and I am grateful that she is safe, happy, independent and I can be a loving caring daughter again. I did put blink cameras in the apartment and told her they were speakers. I also put a Alexa Echo Show so I can see her and she can see me when we talk.

She lives in your residence? It's your place with your rules. Get her back to her Own Home or to go to independent living. If alone in her own home, she can be a fool until an emergency happens. If she refuses to move out of your place, you can contact your county or even the police for assistance. You love her but are not her slave.

Good Morning,

Is it safe if you tried the home visiting services--VNA, speech, CNA, physical, occupational therapy, meals and then if something turns up the decision will be made?

These things are so hard since let's face it everyone, myself included, wants to remain at home, personalities aside.

Just a suggestion...

Confer with her physician and confirm that she is cognitively able to make her own decisions. You need to also be sure that while she is cognitively appropriate that you get yourself or whoever is going to be POA, assigned. Assist her getting back to her own home if she can safely be there alone. It is the usual stance that a lot of parents/ others take to resist ALF. DO NOT LET THAT DETER YOU, from doing what is best for her and you. Either her home with home health care ( if deemed safe by physician assessment) or place in ALF. Physician should be able to refer you to appropriate social services to assist if needed. IF nothing else works, and she is still in your home you can always call 911 and have her transported to an ER and from there refuse to let her be sent back to your house. Insist with case managers there that she be placed.

My mom sounds very similar in attitude and demands....my sister and I have come to believe she has narcissistic tendencies as well. She also has a very different lovely and loving personality for the outside world which can feel maddening. While my mom doesn't live with me, she does flat out refuse to go into independent living and her demands on us are constant and are always met with dissatisfaction.
I would like to tell you to please please try to take care of yourself now. You are important!! Your mom definitely needs to go to AL for BOTH of you. In the meantime you need to focus on your own mental health. I didn't do that and both my physical and mental health tanked for a while. I know it can feel desperate when you are trying your hardest, making sacrifices right and left only to be dismissed and given more "tasks" or demands. It can feel soul crushing. My therapist noted the following and it helps me a lot....she said she believes my mom uses the "demands" and constant tasks she asks us to do as way to control her own anxiety....almost like she is probably unconsciously shifting her own anxiety onto us as a coping mechanism. In that way I see that her behavior is really not about me or anything I do or don't do. It is 100% about her, her fears about aging, loss of independence, things she can't do anymore. When she says something I try to catch myself in the moment and remind myself "this is her issue". My husband's father thanks him for the phone calls, visits, time spent together etc and I often wonder, why can't I get just a little of that from my mom? Bottom line in my situation, it's never going to happen. You can't control what your mom will say or do, all you can control is yourself. So my suggestion to you is to try to start in small ways to take care of yourself. Try to get to a therapist for support. Talk to friends. Build some exercise or destressing physical activity into your day. A few minutes of meditation to clear your mind can do wonders. And most importantly begin to learn and know in your heart that your mom's behavior toward you most likely has nothing to do with who you are, how hard you are trying or what you did or didn't do. Try to feel good about yourself because you have stepped it up for her (regardless of her response) and although the things that she says to you may feel personal, they are really not. It is probably more about where she is at on her journey and in her head. I wish you well!

Send her back Home and have someone set up a CNA , Meals on wheels , Physical therapist and a care giver . You Can do this thru elder services or thru a social worker . What happens Is the Line gets Blurred with our Parents - if she has dementia there is no real reasoning . If your that depressed and stressed you need help to Carry this Burden - a social worker or therapist - and get her set up at Home if she won't go to assisted living . Your health and Life matters .

If she is competent, she can make her own decisions, but your house does not need to be one of her options. She can decide between her own home and an AL facility. If she is not competent, you can choose an AL facility for her.

Why do you believe that you can’t have your mom live elsewhere? Why do you think this arrangement must continue? It’s clearly not working so why go on with it?

Has she been evaluated for dementia? Sounds like she has had so,e major changes in her behavior and that could be it. Dementia also has components of being delusional, paranoia, suspicion, belligerence etc. However, they can still put on a good show when they want to! It’s very frustrating.

If it’s found that she as dementia then you begin the process of getting power of attorney and all your legal ducks in a row to have her placed.

Or if she is competent enough, let her live on her own. But it definitely sounds like she need to be out of your home. It’s only building up resentment.

Just be prepared if she does live on her her, then she may start in with complaints and remarks about how lonely she is and has no one to help her. Another common thing with dementia is nothing is right. In your home, she doesn’t like it…in a facility she doesn’t like it…in her own home she doesn’t like it…having a caregiver come in to help, she doesn’t like it.

You have to do what’s in her best interest and her safety and your piece of mind.

There is nothing wrong with her wanting to go back to her home. She can get in home care. It is FAR BETTER than going into one of those places where the abuse and neglect is off the charts!

I hope things work out with you and your mother, but if she truly wants to go home, please let her. Sometimes it is hard to live together and you may find your relationship with her will improve.

If she needs financial assistance. There are programs out there that will help her pay for her caregivers (which could include you) and also pay for things she may need in the home. We have a program here called IRIS that is very good.

I empathize with you and have many similarities & my siblings are out of the picture, as well. Four years ago, I was going out of town for two weeks, my mother could not stay alone for many reasons. I found a facility that had respite care (this gave her the opportunity to see what an independent living facility was like), and she liked it ok. When I returned we talked about how she could stay, we pick the room and moved in her stuff. She began to thrive and made friends. I was able to gain a different perspective on our relationship and now she tells me how grateful she is to have me, doesn't know what she would do, and actually tells me she loves me (and I am being to believe it is not a manipulative tactic). Perhaps you could do something similar? May you find self-care and peace through making time for yourself and perhaps meditation.

NO is a complete sentence. Call Adult Protective Services and ask them to evaluate her for placement because you cannot take care of her. Her moving is not up to her....................she is in your space and needs to go. You can love each other without living together: millions of people do.

Make yourself an appointment for depression, right away.

If she is willing, a Geriatric Psychiatrist could help her personality disorder, otherwise, pack her bags and have her wait on the front porch!

You need to realize that she has some form of dementia and this means that she cannot make decisions that are in her best interest. If you do not already have medical provider documentation of her diagnosis, get it. You will need for legal matters.
* You, or whoever is the POA, needs to do what is in her best interest ***
* If your mom doesn't have a POA, you need to handle this need.

*** If you continue to allow her to 'run circles around you,' you will continue to pay the consequences - emotionally, physically, and psychologically. Of course, you have sleepless nights, headaches - you are allowing her to control you (as she likely did for decades; it is behavior you know, so understandable. However, there comes a time when YOU must change - no matter how frightening and uncomfortable it is for both of you.
- Learn / realize that you must set boundaries (behavior) for yourself (what you will do and not do), and her.
- State these clearly to her; do not repeat. She will 'kick and scream' wanting her own way and thinking she can manage her own life. This behavior may not change.
* As a way to manage interactions with her, give yourself 'time outs' as needed. DO NOT believe or feel you must 'sit there' and listen to / take her ranting. Tell her ONCE, if you do not talk to me calmly, I am going to leave. And then you must do it. She'll want a sounding board - YOU. Stop this behavior in yourself (you may not be able to stop hers, with the exception of how you respond / behave and she will start to 'get it' . . . If I do xxx my daughter will leave. She likely won't want you to leave.
* Do not ever argue. Instead:
- Acknowledge her words with reflective listening. Feed her words back to her, i.e., I hear you saying "xxx" - is this right?"
- If me, and knowing she is narcassistic, I would provide compassion and clearly state my boundaries once. She will want to argue and argue ... knowing she is right (although she isn't).
* Of course she doesn't know how stressed out you are - why would you think she would - or could even put herself in your shoes to understand this / you? She is not capable of doing this.

SO . . . GET YOUR CARE PROVIDER / DAUGHTER DUCKS IN A ROW.
1. Get medical diagnosis.
2. Get legal authority as needed.
3. Set Boundaries / keep to them.
4. Realize you can do so much and then you need to let go.
5. Realize you deserve a quality life and make time for yourself.
5a. Get support as you need, be it therapy, volunteers, other family members to support you/r mom's needs.

If you do not do this, you will burn out and pay the consequences. Do not do this to yourself. This is 'tough love' and you are doing it for her, and you.

Gena Galenski
Touch Matters

I dunno if she has dementia. This sounds like my Mom for the last 60 years. Sounds like you just wanted to please her, like you've probably tried to do all your life, but she's clinically narcissistic and can't be pleased. I'm really sorry you're going through this.

Mommie Dearest needs to go...........please speak to the Elder Law Attorney about a legal eviction and then ask how to get a guardian for her if she refuses placement or hiring in-home care without your involvement.

Last resort is for you to move and create a happy place for yourself.

Cher68: It is due time for your mother to find another place of residence. You simply are being affected physically and emotionally with her living in your home. You've figuratively bent over backwards and your mother shows you no RESPECT or APPRECIATION. Hopefully she can live in her own home, else she finds an assisted living facility. Best of luck.

Cher, I would guess that she would be motivated to move if you gave her a bill for rent, utilities, food, servitude, rides, whatever else you can think of and charge her top dollar.

She makes you feel bad because this has been successful in manipulating you and you stop pressing her to go. Put your armour on and get her gone.

Sounds like my mother. She refused me and also dr about assisted living so she lived at home and declined. She got frail and my only contact was phone calls. She was Narcissistic her whole life and drive everyone away. She complained about her health but never accepted steps to help. Her identity was her health. Had 3 weeks of several falls. Hospital said assisted living eyc and she refused so they would send her home .Nurses sent to her home and she just blasted them. Finally 3rd time she fell the intern said she had failing organs and she agreed to go to nursing home. She died before she got there. Stubborn to the end .
I had told her we were a team and could find her support and she said “ I always did everything in my own.
so you just have to accept as much as we want to help- some people will always refuse and attack us for it.
Give her her wish and let the consequences happen sadly.
Do only what you are willing to do without appreciation.
she needs to see that her choices effect her

In the beginning...13 yrs ago, my mom started acting "off". I just thought she was being an a**. We would make plans and I would take off from work, show up at her house and she would answer the door and say she changed her mind and doesn't feel like going and shut the door. My mom had a surgery scheduled for a knee replacement and my dad died unexpectedly and my mom did not change her surgery date. So I buried him one day and was at the very same hospital with her a couple of days later. It was awful. Again, I just thought she was being selfish. It wasn't until she got lost while driving to my house that I started to put the pieces together. Looking back on everything, I don't think she remembered having plans with me and she may not have known who I was when she answered the door. We had her tested and she had dementia. It changes them...even in the early stages.

You could tell your mom that you agree that she needs to move, but she needs to be somewhere with people around who can assist her if she needs it and that would be assisted living. I would also suggest a dr's appointment to have her checked for dementia prior to any move. Reinforce that moving back home alone is not safe and no longer an option.

She needs to go and you need to do everything possible to get her out. These two thoughts should become your focus. All the other things you've mentioned, though they're pretty terrible, are diversions. Since she's saved oodles of money by living with you, she can probably afford a great assisted living home. However you need to get her there, please do it! You deserve a better life, and she deserves - well, whatever her past actions have brought about. Take care of yourself now.

Goodness lots of answers. Not sure of another idea is worth it To be truthful
I have read so many post i find myself being confused about the facts r to what i am replying. I have multiple sclerosis Memory Issues not dementia yet. have a very stubborn father with booming voice who has a new dimentia diagnosis. He refuses to live anywhere but alone at home, even after what turned out to be a very serious fall.

My past occupation was as an engineer.. I made up a flow chart beginng at ...mom died -> dad lives alone without accomadations -> dramatic situation happens(fall)-> dad lives at home alone with accomadation->dramatic situation occurs again-> dad goes to assisted livng or home health care-> dramatic stiuation occurs again-> dad goes to nursing home..

but after a dramatic situartion occurs I show he can bypass the next step and go directly to following step. then i point out were he is on the flow chart.. I leave the chart on the kitche n table so he can look at it as he wants to...

I am learning nothing is consistent with dad, its all about thinking of things to do with him..Just got a bunch of games from NFL shop. Easy stuff will offend him, games for ages 3,5,6+ shouldnt offend him if the subject is the NFL . .

Packer fans get dimentia too.

dramatic situation could be caregiver trauma, let her know u have a breaking point.

then u can point out where she is and that the care giver trauma is getting too great she will have to move to the next step.

Rent a U-Haul ASAP, give her a hug and send her on her way.