Mom is, well, declining, and as much as I can sympathize with that, the attitude that is going along with it is more than I can tolerate.
For years I have done everything to people please, and I have learned my lesson. But now, when I am trying to help, ask questions, find out what's going on from her, I get the most overdramatic, I mean, Oscar award winning whining performance. And, a very frequent occurrence of, "I don't want to talk about this," when I ask simple questions like, "what did the doctor say, how are you feeling today." Of course, now, she went and scheduled an elective surgery without telling me. I found out. I asked for details from her and you would have thought I was intruding on her life and had no business asking. Then of course the passive aggressiveness started.
So I finally said, "I guess you need to do what you need to do." Radical acceptance has helped me through some of this, but I am curious. I know that many of us have had dysfunctional upbringings with our mothers, so how do you handle the childlike scoldings you get when they give them? How do you handle the, "you've insulted me" type behavior. Therapy has helped me a lot, but I'm interested in real-life insight.
Then answer gently, and often with a shrug and "I don't know" or "I will think about all you said " or "oh, so sorry."
Glad you are seeking therapy. The 3 or four times in my life I needed it it helped me enormously.
After a quiet 30 seconds, I heard barely above a whisper, "Well, maybe this surgery can wait a little longer."
As I mentioned she doesn't have dementia, she's just not thinking it through since there's always the done deal in the room to bail her out. Now this is not to say I won't be there in emergencies, but "get over here and mop my floor," is not an emergency although the way it's said to me on the phone it's like a fire in the kitchen.
Phew...
Sister asked a question about something and got screamed at, which was triggering, so she left. My mother has always been nasty, sarcastic and verbally abusive to the family.
I canceled my visit today, since that's her mood. I read a book for adult children of emotionally immature parents, and it recommends distance. Observe the parent objectively, don't soak in the vitriol. Minimize opportunities for their abuse. Bottom line: Don't give them what they want, which is to make you miserable.
I think everyone's advice here to stay away until she asks for help is spot-on. Don't be her punching bag. You'll never please her. Nothing you do will ever be right or good enough. There's no shame in walking away when she starts. It's a no-win.
i like your answer a lot.
i know it’s directed at OP (good luck OP!!) —
but there are so many of us daughters in this unlucky situation. your post helps me, too!
“Sister asked a question about something and got screamed at”
terrible.
i get that treatment, too.
i feel sorry for your sister, you, OP, me, everyone in a similar situation.
“She's actually gone from a bedridden vegetable who was starving herself to walking without assistance, taking stairs, eating whatever she wants, bathing herself, and even drinking wine. Doing all her usual things, except driving.”
that’s a miraculous recovery.
:)
“Bottom line: Don't give them what they want, which is to make you miserable.”
yes, as another poster said, like a little devil.
"I told the surgery scheduler when I called to find out when it was that no one had told me, and the lady was apologetic although I told her she absolutely didn't need to be. She was glad that I called because, "We were under the impression she had a ride home and care for 24 hours afterward." How nice."
It always amazed me when my mom was in the hospital, that it was always assumed that mom would have all of the help at home that she would possibly need, without anyone from the hospital actually CHECKING with the person who is expected to be the caregiver.
I remember speaking *very forcibly* to one of the attending doctors (aka yelling) that the hospital could not release my mom home, because there was NO WAY she could make it up the steps into the house without first getting her strength back - better known as rehab. I remember the doctor giving me the dopiest look, like "what a hysterical daughter. There's nothing to going up steps. What a drama queen!" When she (the doc) began to speak to me like I was some simpleton, I REALLY let her have it. And having had posted here during mom's illness, I learned the magical phrase, the "abracadabra" of hospital discharge speak: "unsafe discharge". They release mom to rehab then. Go figure.
I am sorry that you have to go through this. If I were you, I would not only go to that pre-surgery appointment to tell the doctor that "sorry to disrupt your in-and-out surgical plans, but mom's gotta be admitted for AT LEAST 24 hours after the procedure, because I will not be available or able to give her the post-surgery care she is going to require."; I would also see if that fancy patient portal had a link to "contact the doctor". If so, I would send it to the doctor in writing and then take a screen shot to show what time I sent it. So on surgery day, when you get "the look" from the medical people who tell you they had NO IDEA mom couldn't come home, and they didn't plan on an admittance, and there's NO WAY they could admit her now, so you'll have to take her home, you can whip out your device, show them the message and tell them that finding a bed in the hospital isn't YOUR problem, but it's THEIR problem, since you informed the surgeon IN ADVANCE you were unable to provide post-surgery care.
There's no way I can manage her after this surgery, absolutely not.
And I would be remiss if I didn't let the doctors know that I cannot possibly safely uphold the responsibility if that's what they're looking at me for. I am not a "done deal," and frankly they need to know that.
and i'm guessing OP doesn't use any acrimonious tone towards her mother.
:)
hug!!
i know it's tough. very tough.
difficult/impossible mothers. and they use the same tactics all over the world, against their daughter.
that's why all our stories are almost identical.
---------
solution?
although it helps to vent to other people -- i think one needs to direct it also at the person (one's mother).
the words need to be directed at her too, instead of bottling it up.
-- in a soft way, if possible.
i sometimes write emails to my mother, where i honestly say:
please stop X...
i also say it to her, face to face.
but by writing, she can't interrupt/scream. and even if she doesn't read it, it's off my chest, and has been directed at the right person.
(i write/talk in a nice, warm way).
----
next step:
if possible, reduce contact.
i see no other way.
protect yourself.
----
know that, OP, your kindness towards your mother should only be appreciated!! :)
instead, you're getting blamed/criticized, etc.
----
it is impossible to thrive in life, while you're being tormented/abused/yelled at.
you'll constantly be recovering from the most recent abuse. when do you have time to work on your life?
just wishing you to find good ways forward! you'll succeed!!
"Passive-aggressive behavior is a no-win situation, really, b/c the person who displays it has NO communication skills."
Lealonni's post hit home. My MIL was passive-aggressive this is how she got her way. She just went a head and did whatever knowing you would have said No if asked if you wanted it. Then she would get upset because you didn't want/or like it. Yes, I tended to be honest because I wanted her to STOP. I did eventually just take the gift and then give it to someone who liked it. Then there is my almost deaf DH. He can be a little passive-aggressive too. He can't take no for an answer. But he thinks he is doing you a favor and u will change ur mind. I have gotten him to except No, my MIL didn't know what the word No meant.
Your mother pulling the 'help me/don't help me' nonsense is a classic. They want to carry on like they can do it themselves and don't need your help. Season that with some belittling and insult just for good measure. Then the elder realizes they can't and need help and you're supposed to jump to it. No apologies, no hard feelings, and no mention of their previous behavior. My mother used to pull this with me, and I took the bait and the abuse every time.
When you learn better you do better. I stopped playing this nonsense passive/aggressive game with my mother years ago. I've been a homecare caregiver mostly to elderly for almost 25 years now. I learned fast how to avoid playing when my clients would want some games. Like the false "emergencies", staged falls, and other attention-seeking nonsense.
Stay out of your mother's business. Don't offer to help her with anything. If she wants to ask you with respect and gratitude to help her, then do it. Not if she doesn't though. If she says she wants to be on her own, then leave her to it. Don't play the games.
You don't jump through hoops trying to please her when she treats you like crap. You ignore her. If dementia is the reason for her behavior, then do the bare minimal for her and put the rest over to hired caregivers to do for her.
If she gets stubborn or refuses caregiver assistance, the alternative is a care facility.
Don't ruin your life playing her games. Your life matters and your well being is also important.
This is where HIPPA is a hindrance. When Mom stopped driving, at 83, I became her driver. So, started going in with her to her appts. She was showing cognitive decline too. Its a good thing I went in with her. She missinterrupted what the doctor said. I kept saying, no Mom that is not what he said. If ur Mom is in her, lets say 80s, I think its the job of the doctor to make sure family is involved in the decision when surgery is suggested. Or to at least suggest it and not go on with the surgery until a family member also understands the dangers.
I so hope you have financial and medical (advanced directive)POAs for Mom. If not get them. They are a great tool. If she is in her 70s and above make them immediate. Mom can still make her own choices if competent but you won't need a doctor saying she is incompetent to make your POAs effective. Doesn't mean your obligated in caring for her or pay her bills but helps when she can no longer deal with finances and gives you the ability to talk to her doctors. If she says no, then tell her without POA, the State can come in and take over her finances and care. Neither she nor you will have any say where she is put or about her care. This is partly true, they will do all they can to get family to take on the responsibility but...I am not beyond using a little threat.
I have all POAs, co-trustee, executor all wrapped up. We took care of that years ago.
I'm concerned about this doctor being a little pushy on this surgery quite frankly, it was scheduled by way of a phone call. I had only heard there was an "appointment to talk about it" then suddenly there it appeared in her online portal.
After a long thought process, I told her if this is what you want, that's fine, but you'll need to be in the hospital for a day or two for observation because coming home after this and hoping me, and the hired caregiver, can take care of you is not an option. She needs pain control, fall mitigation, all of that. "Oh I'm not afraid of that," she said. "Of course not, you're not the one taking care of you." She's agreed that she'll need to stay, this cannot be a day case.
But mark my words at the pre op appointment I intend to let the doctor know I am not in support of it because of her current state of frailty. She just recently fell again, why would we want to take care of this elective part when there's MUCH bigger things to work on first.
I wonder if your mom has always been this way, or if this is new behavior.
In my mother's situation, her lack of insight into how she was wreaking havoc in our lives by having "emergencies" every day was a symptom of cognitive decline which in turn had been caused by an undetected stroke.
"We were under the impression she had a ride home and care for 24 hours afterward."
This.
No - don't help me.
You don't help me enough..
I'm not telling you about my planned surgery.
Why aren't you more sympathetic about my surgery?
Looks like she is a talented actor who can play whichever part is the most dramatic at the time 😜
Join the play & ham it up!
"I was so worried you were going to be DIE & now I find out you will be SLICED up by a surgeon. Oh NOooooo! What a catastrophe!!"
If not your style, take a seat in the audience instead. Keep quiet. Let her play her games (alone) & only do something to help her if she asks for help in a direct, mature way.(Not hidden in hints, guilt trips or being set up).
i agree.
hugs, beatty! :)
———
dear OP,
in addition, i think some mothers intentionally want to create as much chaos/stress for their daughters as possible.
they don’t actually want “no help”.
when emergencies happen, they do want help. some emergencies could have been prevented (but did they want to prevent it?).
sometimes they want to create as many problems as possible for their daughters:
…1 way to achieve that is subtly mentally (causing stress/worry)
…refraining from taking preventative measures, because this way you create CONTINUOUS stress/worry
if the elderly mother actually starts preventing problems, the daughter will have LESS stress. where’s the fun in that?
dear OP,
it’s very hard to deal with difficult/impossible mothers.
from what i read, the only solution is to reduce contact.
impossible mothers see every contact as an opportunity to abuse their daughters (often, mothers are nice to their sons).
if you and i had simply been born male—
our life would have been (in this context) a lotttt easier.
——
there is nothing we can do to stop the passive-aggressiveness, etc.
they enjoy trampling on us.
——
some tips, which i’ll apply to myself, too:
…prioritize yourself
…have a clear vision of the future
——
with peace comes prosperity.
that’s what the ancient greeks believed.
the greeks believed in various gods and goddesses.
irene was the greek goddess of peace. there were sculptures of her. she held a scepter.
and sometimes she held an infant in her arms (plutus; god of plenty/wealth).
the idea was that:
with peace comes prosperity.
———
that idea is not only true between peaceful nations…
but also for individuals…
your mind/heart…
how can you prosper if you’re constantly being attacked?
———
some people don’t want you to prosper.
bundle of joy :)
Passive-aggressive behavior is a no-win situation, really, b/c the person who displays it has NO communication skills. That's what the problem is, in a nut-shell.
Here's a good article on the subject:
https://www.excelatlife.com/articles/crazy-makers.htm
And another, with 11 examples including coping mechanisms to deal:
https://www.mindbodygreen.com/articles/passive-aggressive-behavior
The silent treatment is a typical PA 'punishment', so I wonder if your mother uses that little trick to get her way? Mine did, but I quit letting it bother me. They hate that, too...........if you ignore the PA behavior/punishments, that gets to them the WORST of all! I used to look at the silent treatment as a welcome break from all the ongoing nonsense!
Anyway, if your mom wants an elective surgery AND to keep it a big secret (like mostly everything these women want kept a secret), then go for it mom! Give the hospital my number and they can call me if you don't make it, so I'll be kept in the loop that way. Like my husband says, "Say the most ridiculous thing." People who want what they want exactly HOW they want it deserve a little bit of ridiculous treatment from the people they're mistreating once in a while, don't they? :) A bit of their own medicine, so to speak.
Oooh, speaking of 'throwing me in there', my mother ALWAYS used to say, "Just throw me out in the street like a DAWG." That was one of her faves! Or threaten that she'd "Just go run out in the traffic and kill myself" or "Throw myself out the window" at which point I'd remind her she lived on the first floor of the Assisted Living residence so that wouldn't work..........she'd have to figure out how to climb up to the roof to accomplish that task!! Again, you want to play? Let's PLAY ma!!!
Good luck beating mom at her own game by developing a few tricks of your own!
And believe me I do get my ridiculous phrases and sayings in when I can. She had a recent fall which of course required 911 and the ER. She told them I witnessed the fall. I looked them in the eye and said, "If I'd been there to witness it, she wouldn't have been doing what she was doing when she fell. I'D HAVE BEEN DOING IT." They got it.
Check yourself...how are you really asking the questions (sometimes we might sound condescending to a parent, or accusatory, or angry, etc.), and how you otherwise engage with her. If you're respectful, get a mantra....and I'm not being flip. Make it positive and forward-moving.
I had to start going to appointments with my mother. I'd listen to her fib, I'd set the record straight, I'd get the evil eye. Had to start going to not just let the doctor know things, but to learn what he was telling her, AND a second head and another pair of ears is always better than one.
They get secretive with everyone b/c of their fears.
Can you, instead, see if you can lead her into conversations that make her less defensive/argumentative? Something like, "So what's been going on, Mom? Anything interesting?" (Whatever.) Sometimes people will open up--a stream of consciousness kind of thing--when they don't feel pinned against a wall by direct questioning, which they see an inquisition with an ultimate ending they don't like.
Less inquisitional, more non-leading casual.
Then there's always: "I'm your daughter and I'm worried. If I wasn't concerned, you'd find something wrong with that, too. Pick a lane, Mom, or shoot me."
Edit: Left out important qualifiers.