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My spouse dumped is breakfast in the toilet when I wasn't looking and then showed me the clean plate and said he ate it all. Or, asked another way, can someone who is able to construct a deliberate lie actually have dementia?
It sounds like your spouse wants very much to please you. He thought a clean plate would make you happy. He thought of a way to make that happen, as MaxxsGranny suggests, perhaps from his childhood.
It is also possible that by the time he showed you the clean plate he had already forgotten dumping it and he really believed he had eaten it.
Lewy Body Dementia (which my husand has) is known for its fluctuations in cognitive ability. Sometimes he seems normal and an hour later he is definitely not normal. Some caregivers think at first that the patient must be faking it -- nope, that is the nature of the disease. While the fluctuations are very pronounced in LBD, they occur in other dementias as well.
Ishmael's observation that a large percentage of dementia diagnoses prove to be wrong on autopsy is correct -- but it is not a matter of the patients not having dementia, it is a matter of what kind of dementia they have. There is a strong (one might say desperate) push in the research arena to find biomarkers that could be used for diagnositic purposes. It would be great to have a blood test to be able to say this person has dementia, types A and B.
Until then, we spouses of dementia victims have to go with our observations and with the best guesses of experts.
obviously, they do... You saw the clean plate didn't you... They are not Dumb, in fact they generaly have long term memories, and thats something he might have done as a child and remembers it foundly..I had to smile when I read your qestion although I know you must be very frustrated by it, try to invision that 9 year old feeding his vegtables to the dog, under the table and smile....
Perhaps only a person who has some kind of clue can be sneaky. Until the very severe stage most people with dementia have some kind of clue at least some of the time. What they don't have is the same level of inhibitions as they once did, keeping them from what we would consider bad behavior. They also may not have clear concepts of cause and effect or of consequences. (This is one of the reasons they should not drive, even if they appear to be able to handle the mechanics of driving.)
Dealing with a person who has dementia, AZcaregiver, is indeed frustrating. Usually the things that are so annoying are not really within their control, as we think of control.
These diseases are not clean cut, like macular degeneration, for example. In cases where autopsies are performed, we find that half of the Alzheimer's diagnoses were incorrect. Even the stages of these kinds of diseases are gray areas that might be arbitrarily reclassified at any moment.
It would be an odd observation of the human condition though, if the end stage of a degenerative brain disease included the condition, "No longer able to construct a deliberate lie".
Good point jeannegibbs. They definately don't seem to have inhibitions in the way that we see it or in the way they used to. Thank you for helping me see it in a different perspective.
mama12: has he always treated you like this or has his illness changed him from who he was before the cancer? Has he had chemo? "Chemo brain" is real and for some it does not go away after the treatment ends and the person is no longer the same mentally. You sound like you are a sweet, compassionate person, dealing with some verbal and emotional abuse, don't let it change who you are at your core but perhaps try removing yourself by leaving the room every time he starts in on you. He needs you but doesn't want to admit it and as long as you stay in front of him, you are a great target...walk away.
how do you stop the hurt when nothung you do is right an he talkes nicer to the dog then he does you. I am 82 been married 47 years he is 86 has stomach cancer and some demenit if some one else is here he puts on a good act I know he isn't in his right mind all the time but it hurts any way how do you stop the hurt
YES! My husband started dumping his cereal nearly one year ago. He tried forcing the uneaten cereal down the garbage disposal, but could not remember how to turn the disposal on. He was caught in the act! Now, he flushes cereal down the toilet. He eats maybe 1/3. Please do not be surprised if loved ones with dementia lies. It's quite common. My husband lies more as times goes on. He doesn't shower, but insists that he does...not unless there are "dry showers" these days. He lies but does not realize when showering, the shower walls would be wet! He insists that he changes dirty and soiled clothes, but the same apparel is on. Bottom-line, dementia patients are intelligent enough to lie, however, they are not intelligent enough to cover up the evidence. Likened to a 3 year old who insist he "went potty" but there is nothing in the potty! Hope this helps answer your question.
IMO, yes, they construct a lie. It's just knowing when they are lying or when they are delusional or just don't know and say something as a reply, saying anything to continue a conversation. My father at age 89 insisted my husband, his son in law, was berating and cursing him. Since I was in the house in another room, I would hear the entire conversations. My father didn't want to get dressed and go to daddy day care for a few hours; my husband and I both had appointments that had to be kept. Since my dad didn't want to go, he told me that my husband had cursed him and humiliated him. I said 'Dad, I heard the entire conversation, he would never speak to you like that' and my father replied 'you don't hear how he talks to me when you aren't here. He wants to kick me out of my own house. He told me he doesn't care that I'm sick, to get my butt up and get dressed' which was bizarre since I was the one living with my dad while my husband continued to live in our own home and only came over to assist me as needed, to have meals with us, to help with the house cleaning. The truth is my father is a jealous man, only wanted me to take care of him, and insisted I no longer allow my husband in the house. So he would make up lies about anyone who would want him to do something that he didn't want to do. Which is different from normal Alzheimer's delusions or inability to thought process or inability to understand consequences (if you try to stand up from the wheelchair, you may fall. If you insist on taking apart your razor after shaving, the pieces may fall down the sink drain. Don't throw your soda can or water bottle towards the trash can because it may not make it to the trash and I will have to clean up sticky fluids from the kitchen floor. Do not grab my arm while we are driving because we may wreck.) So IMO opinion and personal experience, an ALZ patient can lie easily.
By proceeding, I agree that I understand the following disclosures:
I. How We Work in Washington.
Based on your preferences, we provide you with information about one or more of our contracted senior living providers ("Participating Communities") and provide your Senior Living Care Information to Participating Communities. The Participating Communities may contact you directly regarding their services.
APFM does not endorse or recommend any provider. It is your sole responsibility to select the appropriate care for yourself or your loved one. We work with both you and the Participating Communities in your search. We do not permit our Advisors to have an ownership interest in Participating Communities.
II. How We Are Paid.
We do not charge you any fee – we are paid by the Participating Communities. Some Participating Communities pay us a percentage of the first month's standard rate for the rent and care services you select. We invoice these fees after the senior moves in.
III. When We Tour.
APFM tours certain Participating Communities in Washington (typically more in metropolitan areas than in rural areas.) During the 12 month period prior to December 31, 2017, we toured 86.2% of Participating Communities with capacity for 20 or more residents.
IV. No Obligation or Commitment.
You have no obligation to use or to continue to use our services. Because you pay no fee to us, you will never need to ask for a refund.
V. Complaints.
Please contact our Family Feedback Line at (866) 584-7340 or ConsumerFeedback@aplaceformom.com to report any complaint. Consumers have many avenues to address a dispute with any referral service company, including the right to file a complaint with the Attorney General's office at: Consumer Protection Division, 800 5th Avenue, Ste. 2000, Seattle, 98104 or 800-551-4636.
VI. No Waiver of Your Rights.
APFM does not (and may not) require or even ask consumers seeking senior housing or care services in Washington State to sign waivers of liability for losses of personal property or injury or to sign waivers of any rights established under law.
I agree that:
A.
I authorize A Place For Mom ("APFM") to collect certain personal and contact detail information, as well as relevant health care information about me or from me about the senior family member or relative I am assisting ("Senior Living Care Information").
B.
APFM may provide information to me electronically. My electronic signature on agreements and documents has the same effect as if I signed them in ink.
C.
APFM may send all communications to me electronically via e-mail or by access to an APFM web site.
D.
If I want a paper copy, I can print a copy of the Disclosures or download the Disclosures for my records.
E.
This E-Sign Acknowledgement and Authorization applies to these Disclosures and all future Disclosures related to APFM's services, unless I revoke my authorization. You may revoke this authorization in writing at any time (except where we have already disclosed information before receiving your revocation.) This authorization will expire after one year.
F.
You consent to APFM's reaching out to you using a phone system than can auto-dial numbers (we miss rotary phones, too!), but this consent is not required to use our service.
It is also possible that by the time he showed you the clean plate he had already forgotten dumping it and he really believed he had eaten it.
Lewy Body Dementia (which my husand has) is known for its fluctuations in cognitive ability. Sometimes he seems normal and an hour later he is definitely not normal. Some caregivers think at first that the patient must be faking it -- nope, that is the nature of the disease. While the fluctuations are very pronounced in LBD, they occur in other dementias as well.
Ishmael's observation that a large percentage of dementia diagnoses prove to be wrong on autopsy is correct -- but it is not a matter of the patients not having dementia, it is a matter of what kind of dementia they have. There is a strong (one might say desperate) push in the research arena to find biomarkers that could be used for diagnositic purposes. It would be great to have a blood test to be able to say this person has dementia, types A and B.
Until then, we spouses of dementia victims have to go with our observations and with the best guesses of experts.
Dealing with a person who has dementia, AZcaregiver, is indeed frustrating. Usually the things that are so annoying are not really within their control, as we think of control.
It is a very hard role we are cast in!
These diseases are not clean cut, like macular degeneration, for example. In cases where autopsies are performed, we find that half of the Alzheimer's diagnoses were incorrect. Even the stages of these kinds of diseases are gray areas that might be arbitrarily reclassified at any moment.
It would be an odd observation of the human condition though, if the end stage of a degenerative brain disease included the condition, "No longer able to construct a deliberate lie".
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