I'm afraid my sister is trying to steal all of my mom’s money by being on joint accounts with her. What can I do to protect my mom?

And my mother offered to make me POA, but I told her that I didn't want it. Her best friend from when I was a child is getting that honor. Number one, she's known all of us so long, she isn't overly impressed with anyone. Number two, she's not intimidated by greedy family members. Number three --- the most important of all --- she has no dog in this fight. Her only concern is for what is best for my mother. That's the way it should be for everyone concerned, but it isn't.

Cowgirl, your story is my story. I am the main caregiver to my 85 year old mother. I am on her bank accounts also. She pays me 250.00 a month for cleaning her house, cooking her meals (at my house with groceries that I purchased), doing her laundry, running her to the doctors, keeping up the yard, shoveling snow in the winter. And I have a sister who is very resentful and sent me an email about POA's that steal from their parents!!! She lives out of town and rarely visits mom, I am there for my mother everyday. There, vented!!

My mother had an infection from wire mesh that became life threatening last week. This is not the first time that she's been operated on for this problem. The wire mesh is from cancer surgery in 1994 and no matter how much they remove, they never seem to get it all. Last week, she nearly died again.

I called her son-in-law to tell him since the older sibling doesn't speak to me or to her mother. I called their daughter to make sure that she knew. I called my other siblings. I called her siblings.

Her oldest grandchild told me that she had issues with her grandmother. Her son-in-law told me that he didn't know what to say. Younger siblings said thanks for calling, we'll call her at the hospital --- only one who called was her son and he told her how a friend of his had turned septic within a matter of hours and died the same day she was released from the hospital. My mother's brothers were called and one of them proceeded to scream at me because older sister's gone and told another whopper to the relatives as to why she has no contact with her mother. As if I didn't have enough to deal with, now I had to deal with their misguided anger in defense of older sister and her issues. In the meantime, I put over eight hundred miles on the car going back and forth to the hospital to be there for my mother so that she wasn't alone.

On Friday, one of her nieces got upset because the landlord's maintenance had issues at another one of his properties and didn't have time to install a ceiling fan in her bedroom. She also found fault with the way that the yard was trimmed, like I didn't already have enough to worry about.

Now, the issue is this: how much information is owed ANY of them when they don't really give a flip if she lives or dies as long as they get their share when her life is over? They don't help. Quite frankly, the only time they seem to know the phone number is when they want something. I almost told her brothers about older sister's attempt to DNR our mother when our mother was just gone from the room for a test, but they wouldn't believe it if I did. The only reason why she didn't get her way was because I flat out told her no.

And I still remember the Mother's Day when her oldest grandchild screamed as she came into our home "Nanny, I know what I want when you die" at the top of her lungs. Uh huh. Love? Nope. Greed? You bet.

I'll tell you how much information they're owed morally --- absolutely none.

PegDBeeLady...

Do raise bees? If so, that is so cool! I'm intrigued by bees...

To answer your question the simple rule is this:

A trust will have a trustee. If accounts are titled in the name of the trust the account will read: XYZ Trust dated 00/00/0000 XYZ, Trustee.

Assets in the trust are governed by the terms of the trust at the grantor's demise. Not by the will (unless the trust directs proceeds back to the estate of the deceased), or by other ownership, or by beneficiary (testamentary) provisions.

Yes this is true as I am finding out. A sad truth however. But with this group I feel less frustrated b/c I feel less alone. The feeling of being the target of everyone else's aim is what makes me mad. But then I know I am not doing anything wrong so I have no reason to defend myself. Thanks, madge1 for the suggestion to contact Mr. Robbins directly. I appreciate that.

Hi PEGDBEELADY, just read your post. Sounds like the problems we all have. No transparency. Same in my family. The right hand doesn't know what the lef t is doing. So frustrating. Good Luck

Hi PEGDBEELADY, I reread your question and see what you mean. The trust should have a trustee whose duty it is to see that the beneficiaries get what is due them. I would think the trust would be the final say, overriding the fact that your brother is on the bank accounts. People can be put on joint bank accounts with the stipulation that the account goes back to the estate upon their death. The problem is most don't do this out of ignorance. This is a very good question. My brother in law was on my MIL's checking account and it reverted back to the estate when she died. There were several trusts. This stuff is complicated at best but you should be able to find someone to answer this for you. You can post a specific question on Mr. Robbins wall and he will probably get back to you. Good Luck

No apology necessary. I agree that when things get out of hand it can and does destroy a family. My dad has been gone less than a year and let me tell you I see my brother's true colors. I have had accusations thrown at me as well as I have lived with both of my parents for many years and lived my own life with my own jobs and money. The arrangement was that this is country and my brother, who lived up the street, moved to the middle of the nation to get away from responsibilities. However he is responsible for the money (with his name on ALL accounts - thus my question about financial institutions and arrangements). Yes there is a will, yes I hope THAT is the governing document and I was told all of my mom's children have POA but no one is giving up the paperwork on that. My hands are tired when it comes to health decisions without that document. As they say, there are TOO MANY COOKS IN THIS KITCHEN. I am the only one here, as you are, to take care of things but I don't handle anything that deals with money, my mom buys her own things, if I buy something for this/her house, I put my name on it or as you stated, keep my receipts. I have received those emails from my brother as well. I would like to add that I email both my siblings at least once a month about what mom and I are doing and I get "you don't communicate with me" (solely my brother). Some family members think they are more important than others. I like this posting and venting and getting info from others as this is new to me and I feel less alone. Thank you for responding.

I did ready everything he wrote and when I got to that one line I had a specific question about it. I am hoping that he goes back to see if anyone had specific questions about what he wrote. My question is specifically about how many/who is on financial accounts as he stated the monies all go to those on the account. I wanted him to clarify and answer my question specifically. If three are on a bank account and one dies do the remaining two share the assets? (if rewording my question helps)

Hi PEGDBEELADY, if you go back to Mr. Robbins post at the beggining of this, he explains alot. Hope this helps you.

I want to apoligize to everyone on here for talking about things that got way off the subject. I think when I spoke, I was having a angry day about things, as being a caregiver all the time , that just happens. To Pegbeelady, I wish I could answer your question, but I can tell you what I think, which if I am wrong, then someone else will answer. My Parents had a Will made up. that states that all property is to be split equally including bank accounts and then list all three of our names. I would think if only one name is listed as beneficiary on the account, that , that would be the only person who could draw out the money. However, if there is a Will and the Will states that things are to be split equally among three. I would think the legal thing would be the Will!! Therefore if only one could draw out any money for what ever reason, the legality of the WIll. would make that person have to pay back the others to make it equal. If someone takes it upon theirselves to take money for their own self interest, they will have to pay it back to the others. It would only be called "Fair", don't you think? and its a Legal thing. So therefore, for all who is reading this, , there should be a Wll is place. I gave POA to my sister, after I was receiving too many hate emails from my brother over his mis-trust with me. That took a world of responsibility off my shoulders. Like I had said in an earlier post somewhere maybe on another topic, I received an early inheritance from mom of $15K when I was going through a tough time 2 yrs ago. This has been thrown in my face many times. I even called the other 2 , telling them what was going on, as well as mom letting them know. THey were angry and still want this stated on the Will as an attached Note. I tell them, go ahead. But I will tell ya, that I been the only one here to take care of things for the most part, and I have a ton of receipts, which is important to show that I will get compensated for what I put in for. Yes if someone in the family is not sharing information about use of money, it needs to be dealt with right away, and not to let it get so out of hand that it destroys the family.

May I ask if my brother is on my mom's accts with the family trust as well, when she passes does he become sole owner of the monies in the bank? No one else is on the acct but my mom, my brother, and the family trust. Does having the family trust on the acct change what you stated above "When it comes to banks accounts ..."?

I guess you could say I have been on both sides of the fence.

As my mother was 1st diagnosed with dementia, I found out that my sister had obtained a POA and had closed joint banking accounts that had my name on them. When my father passed away, my mother and I visited the banks that she had accounts with and set up accounts with my name and her's, and accounts with my sister's name and her's. Mom and I though that this way, if there was a time when Mom needed to be taken care of either of us girls would have access to bank accounts to do the job.

My mom had aways said that when she passed away, that everything was to be split between my sister and myself. I soon learned that my sister had taken my mom to a new atty and was trying to find a way to gift away her assets that so when the time came for her to be moved into some type of care facility, the state would come into play. My parents had worked all of their life so that when time came to be cared for, they would have funds to take of them selves and be able to choose where they would be able to live and not on the state.

About the same time, I also found out that she had helped my mother make changes in her will, I was, what you could say, out. (Just as a side note: My father was sick for about 6 months before he passed away. During the time he was sick. I would drive 400 miles round trip about every other weekend for the 1st 3 months to help with his care. And then every weekend until he passed away. My sister in that time, up and left her family, moved in with anther man and never saw my father in the last 4 months of his life.The day my father passed away, I called my sister to let her know that he had slipped into a coma, but she had a study group to go to.) Knowing that my sister had done this, I was up set with her. But even with all that had happened, I talked with my Mom and asked what she really wanted, and as before, Mom wanted thing split evenly. So back to the atty we (and when I say we, I mean, Mom, my sister and myself) all went. A new will was made and new POA where my sister and I were once again equal. My Mom wanted to make it clear on how she wanted her will set up.

However over time, Mom has had some incounters with my sister and her boyfriend. My mom had become very worried that the boyfriend is only with my sister for my mom's $$ and so off to the atty we went to make changes once again. I now have POA and my mom has closed most of the joint bank accounts with my sister's name. But just to be sure, my sister will still be receiving her = share of the estate. Mom lives in assisted living now and I live about 5 min from her and my sister lives 45 min. Mom has dementia, and battled lung cancer last year. I took her to every treatment and every Dr appt, and still do. I see her about 3-4 times a week and help her with landry and other things she needs. I know that my sister has sent me an e-mail asking for copies of bank statments, tax returns and copies of all of my mom's bills. But knowing how my mom feels about the boyfriend, I first asked my mom if she wanted me to release this information. I have to say that my mom gave me a strong sounding No, and that if my sister wants this information, she can ask her. My sister has already asked to have a copy of the will and I know that mom told her no.

So here I sit, once on the side of the fence that NoVoice is on but now I am on the other side of the fence and NoVoice, could be my sister. NoVoice, I know that it is hard, but are you able to talk with your mom? If you can, is your sister willing to be in the conversation? I know all I want is the best for my Mom and it sound like you are wanting the same thing, the best for yours. Good luck.

You're right. I do need a vacation. Only it's never going to happen because of the whiners who want to sit on their hands and tell me that she's all my responsibility and at the same time, call for money and demand to know how her pension is being spent, even though it's only being spent on her needs and not mine. In the meantime, I'm unable to go to the doctor's when I need to, I'm derisively called a charity case by the relatives on my mother's side of the family and the worst of them all gets by on everyone's sympathy on how put upon she is and how badly she's been treated. Uh huh. And how do I know what is being told? Every time that my mother is hospitalized and calls have to be made to her siblings and mine to inform them, I get an attitude from them and basically treated like I'm trash.

Hey, I'd love to have my job back and my medical coverage, especially for the chronic conditions I have, but it's not going to happen. I'd love to have the meds I need so that I don't go into renal failure because of my high blood pressure and so that I can have lumps in my breasts biopsied instead of being told by the surgeon I've been sent to that they'll just keep an eye on them because I don't have insurance. I'd love to have my income back so that my credit rating isn't completely shot when my mother passes on and I have to start over from scratch. I'd love to have that vacation you said I need, but I can't afford to cross the street, so it's not going to happen either.

Ten to one, no one is being greedy. The money is going to pay the mother's bills. Just because someone says only six checks a month need to be written doesn't make it so. So what if the sister is on the accounts? If she's the one who is handling the mother's finances, she needs to be for her own legal protection against charges of theft and fraud by siblings who are more concerned about the money than they are their mother and who think that they know the true picture of her finances when they don't even come close to having a clue.

I've heard my own siblings talk about how much my mother should be living off of. They conveniently leave out the no increases in COLA, the ever-enlarging lists of prescriptions that must be filled, the ever-increasing cost of even basics like food, electricity and a place to live that has to be maintained from their discussions. In the meantime, they continue on in their lives and never give a thought to either our mother (or their grandmother) and myself. You can tell them what the reality is and you can ask them for their help and input, but they still go on their merry little ways. They have no idea the mess I took over and have done my best to straighten out, but they can talk amongst themselves and play the relatives for sympathy. It's sick and it's wrong.

No, you're only hearing one side of the story. You should remember that things aren't always what they seem.

Mayasbop, I have read other posts from NoVoice. Her situation is different. She and her sister are being pushed aside by a greedy sibling. I know that doesn''t come across in this post but there were other posts with more information. She has been disinherited by the Mother by putting the younger sister on the joint accounts. All left over funds will go to the little sister. Little sister is not taking care of her Mom,. Mom is in Assisted Living. So no one is killing themselves taking care of Mom. Mom needs to understand when she puts one child on a joint account, unless otherwise specified, she disinherits the others. There lies the hurt. It could be simply solved by stipulating that the funds go back to her estate but most elderly people don't do this out of ignorance. She is not a whiner but a hurt child inside. I know, I have had the same situation. She is probably asking herself why she ever posted anything on this site. You, my dear, need a vacation.

madge1, I've been on the receiving end of someone else's attempts to impune my character by their speculation on my handling of my mother's finances. They do it from a distance because they wouldn't dare get their hands dirty by actually being responsible for our mother. It's easier to sit back and believe that the finances are really there to do all this without her help if I'd only just be more careful than it is to believe that prices are up and pension income is stagnant. Funny how the non-caregivers never seem to understand that giving up my job in order to care for my mother full-time DECREASED what we had to work with. They all seem to believe that she's rolling in it, but that's the furtherest thing from the truth.

She sounds a whole lot like the whiners in my family, the ones who look for reasons not to be there but who want to take it all when our mother is gone, the very ones who expect me to roll over and play dead when that time comes. Um, no, I won't. I don't have to.

I'm not bullying anyone. I'm simply asking questions because her statements aren't logical at all. If I were her sister, I wouldn't answer either, especially if I had to ask her to do anything when it came to our mother.

You know Mayasbop, you are really not very nice. NoVoice has several posts on this site and she is a decent person. This site is not for bullying others, please take it somewhere else.

NoVoice, why do you wait to be asked to do for your mother when it should be a given that you'll do for her. Do you ever call and make plans with your mother for a meal together or a matinee or a drive?

You're her daughter, you are afraid of being disinherited, you want to know what her money is being spent on and you help only if you're asked.

Uh huh.

I should mention , it is important a contract is made and notarized so that when you go to apply for Medicaid the money paid to you will not be counted as "missing assets" to pay for her care.

Cowgirl, You should be PAID! It sounds like she is no longer able to handle her own affairs well. You need to be able to be paid and have it written up in a contract the duties you perform and the amount you are to be paid for it. You can be paid up to $20 dollars an hour. Which, is the amount paid to caregivers for the elderly. Of course, most of us feel bad taking that much and won't. But, you end up giving 24/7 of your life for this person. You need control of POA and to know what is available to pay for her care NOW! If you are not the POA. Then, the POA needs to step up to the plate and pay for her care. People expect caregivers to donate their entire lives, live off of nothing while doing it, give up their own sanity and careers, and free time, and when any less than that is given, they act all put out and critical. Trust me, if they had to spend any time at all doing what you do, it would open their eyes rather or not they admit it.

NoVoice, you have every right to be included in how your Mother's money is spent. You have cared for her and been a good daughter. I have read your other posts and understand that you don't want to be disinherited from her accounts any more than anyone else would in your place.

Some have a chip on their shoulders about taking care of the parent and feeling they should have complete control over everything. There are many factors in every family as to why some of this happens. But for peace in the family, all should be informed, things should be transparent, and everyone should help with the parent. I read so many posts about caregivers who are angry because no one helps them. I understand their anger. I too have been left out of everything. In my family it is my brother being "in charge". I know when the going gets tough, he and my mother will be looking to me for help. They have burned alot of bridges, so do I become the angry caregiver or the jerk sibling who won't help? These are complex issues.

We should all respect each other's point of view.

The funny part of it all is anyone would actually believe their parents when they say that they would never want to be burden and then take them up on it years later when their parents need care. My mother used to say the same thing, but when her health changed rapidly, she realized that she really didn't mean it after all. Good thing one of us is there to do for her, isn't it?

I can't remember the last time I had a vacation for even a weekend, but everyone else can complain about it being too inconvenient to come to see her or call or even e-mail her. However, they do want control over how her pensions are spent on her. They don't get it. She's the one who earned it and she's the one whose needs will be met with it.

Mayasbop - I paid for the changes to my home because whether it was temporary or if it ended up permanent I wanted my mother to be comfortable and feel she wasn't just in a temporary guest room. As for introducing her to our social circle, I saw no reason to leave her at home if I thought there were others her age that she may like to meet (like at church). I thought it would be rude to not include her or give her the option, I always asked. She wanted to go and she enjoyed meeting our friends and church peers. It gave her a chance to get out of the house.

She's actually closer to my sister who is POA. I thought it would be selfish to demand (for ME) that she be closer. The original assisted living was located somewhat equi-distant, but the new facility is much closer to my sister.

All of my mother's resources are for HER care. I'm not asking for anything except for my sister to share information with us. Again - she is not open and transparent about everything so it leaves questions unanswered.

Again - I do everything I can for my mother if asked. I am typically not asked. Am I supposed to force my presence when they don't ask? I have taken her for errands, at one point I was taking her to mass, but she has stopped wanting to do that.

NoVoice, I think this is no longer about you. Maybe time to log out. :)

Amen. And assisted living facilities aren't cheap. I questioned one of my relatives about why they seemed to think that the most loving thing that they could for their parents was to make sure that their parents paid their long-term care insurance premiums on time.

Notice I didn't say that the children paid it for them. They just made sure that the parents wrote the check and put it in the mail on time.

cowgirl, god bless you. You need a break for sure.

To Mayasbop, loved reading your story as much relates to mine. So many people always telling you how to handle things ,but no one there when you need them. Just voicing concern over property and money, but rarely here to see mom. Mom has just learned the internet in the past year or so but is 88yrs old. SHe loves the emails and even joined FB to see what the family is doing. But every day I have to show her how to get into that program and how to answer if she wants to.
So even when I read of what others are doing in their daily lives, makes me so angry when they are not able to come up here much to see her. I raise my voice when I talk about things because mom can't hear well., then mom thinks I am angry at her, I then have to try to explain everytime just so she knows what is bugging me, but I don't feel she gets it a lot of the time. Since my dad passed away 5 yrs ago, I feel that mom miss's that fighting with dad and now trys to stir the pot with my siblings, just to have excitement. We are starting to catch on now though, and just ignore most of what she is trying to stir. She even was trying to push me into feeling guilty a great deal this morning as I tried to get dressed up and go out and job hunt. She knows I am broke and can't stand this any longer, She carried her gargbage pails back in by herself today. WHen I got back home from the job hunt, I asked why she did that? and she remarked becaue she is all alone and I don't want to be there. I said mom. you can't be doing this kind of work, the doctor don't want you to. THere is no rush to bring in the pails and I can't do it before a job deal , going in smelling like a garbage pail. So many people wonder why we get such an attitude, but there it is people!! To top this off, I did not grow up with a great deal of affection . My mom never knew her mother at all because she died when my mom was only 2yrs old.. Her father was always gone she said, so when she had us kids, we were being raised by parents that both drank, both fought everyday in front of us kids, and rarely did we ever receive love. I have always had an attitude it seems, and now everybody expects so much of me and in a loving way should I be doing it. I try, because as I have aged, I have learned a great deal about being more loving, but it is hard when you are being put down all the time. I am so sick of hearing about the money, I just want to remove myself from this whole situation. It is not healthy for me, and the only reason my mom is still at home, is because she choses to sit there every day by herself to be around her things and her home that she doesn't want to give up. I can no longer take it, I can no longer hang out there. WHen she offered to pay me, I told her that I hear constant quabbling over the fact that I should be getting any help at all. I can't bear another day of it, and so I continue to look for work, and the others can sit in dismay when that day comes and mom needs help. I want to be there for her, but it is getting too hard,

Is your sister the caretaker acting in your mothers behalf? If so, she needs the money. Trust me. My mother and I were actually told by an attorney to add my name to her accounts. I was the one who did the caretaking grunt work and my other siblings were living high on the hog off of her money. We also had to change who she referred to as power of attorney in her trust. Because, my sister feeling full of herself as "Poa" was using her "Poa" before my mom was that far gone. She and my brother had stolen her land, and much of her money by the time that I did this. And since someone was stealing, the lawyer had us put anything remaining out of their reach. Thank goodness. Or, I would have had nothing to take care of her with. Also, it is legal for a caretaker to be paid from the elderly persons funds.

They were simply logical questions that I asked of someone who is worried about the finances of her mother. It isn't logical.