Gardening as therapy.

Hey guys! This is a really cool thread. You guys know lots of stuff! I'm kind of a gardening dunce but after reading some previous posts I thought you may find some of the northern MI ag stuff interesting.

I'm up in the far north western tip of MI. It's cherries, apples and vineyards up here. We have everything from the family farm with a couple of orchards to the really big guys with hundreds of acres.

The discussions of critter control interests me. We used to put out small kitchen gardens but lost the battle very quickly to the deer and raccoons. So we gave up and just buy our produce at a farm stand down the road. Let him do all the work. But here's some stuff the farmers and gardeners do up here to fend off the critters.

The vineyard guys, large and small, drape all the vines with tight mesh netting as the fruit ripens, otherwise the birds, deer and coons would get it all. I see people also do this with berry bushes. Farmers even use orchard cannons which are propane powered and make loud booms to scare off birds and deer. I feel very soon for the retirees who bought the place next to these guys.

For veggie gardens up here you gotta have a rabbit and deer proof fence. The conventional method is posts and chicken wire but that's a pain if you have a large garden. Deer can jump an 8 foot fence if you have stuff they really like. Coons will dig under. Serious gardeners use electric fences similar to what I use for our horse pastures. A primer:

Electric fences don't kill people, pets or wild animals but if any of the latter ever come in contact with an electric fence they will never touch it again. This applies to the higher functioning critters like me, down to a possum with a brain the size of a pea.

The reason electric don't kill is its a pulse system. It charges in pulses so if you grab the wire the voltage goes away in the next second, you scream, jump back and vow to never do that again. Critters have the same reaction. We rarely turn our horse fence on any more. Our boys both got bit years ago and won't even get close. I even have some pasture with fake elec wire. It's not hooked up to anything but the horses ain't taking any chances.

For gardens the wires need to be closer to the ground, think racoon height. And keep the weeds trimmed to not interfere with the wires. You can get chargers that plug into an outlet but you can also get solar
chargers that work just as well. I used a solar charger on a small out of the way pasture for several years. I think it cost about $80.

You can get the stuff at farm stores like Tractor Supply or a bunch of on line sites, and there's plenty of instructional stuff on line. If you have a hubby, sig O, or anyone who likes to tinker with a little engineering tell them how much it would mean to you to have a nice electric fence. That's what my wife does and it works every time. I find myself getting into all sorts of challenging stuff. Some work, others.....don't want to talk about it.......

Mea culpa! Sorry!

Its black swallowtails that love parsley GA.
Your planting buckwheat reminded me of an incident with my aunt. Years ago she kept bees, and a new neighbour thought it would be a good idea to plant buckwheat in the spring. Of course it was flowering about the same time as the clover and spoiled her early honey, she wasn't a very happy camper! The neighbour was told that anybody with any sense knows to plant buckwheat as a fall crop! lol

Sharyn, I ADORE irises! They're just so beautiful and graceful.

So, what did you buy, and HOW MANY? It's hard to buy just a few. If you really want to be tempted, check Schreiner's website. Be prepared to sigh as soon as you reach the website.

Mina, I think the shade from the larger trees definitely blocked sun access to the serviceberries, especially depending on their location. The abandoned yard next door has 4 sets of massive trees just outside the south property border of my property, and completely block out sun all day long. Even the understory bushes are slow to turn color; the higher leaves turn the quickest.

But I think the cold weather should give everything a big boost toward the annual changing of colors. It would be interesting to measure the temperature at the base and top of these massive widowmakers, but I have no idea how to safely get to the top of the trees to take temperatures!


SendMe, if I recall correctly, you're in a California zone, so I'm not really sure what grows well there, but I do know that organic gardeners use chia seeds in cooking, in lieu of some thickeners such as cream of tartar. At one time I had posted on a gardening forum and got suggestions for alternates for sugar in freezer jams, and chia was one suggestion. They're really, really expensive here, so I should also be thinking about growing some next year.

So, yes, plant chias! If Zink likes them and you like Zink, plant more chias!

That gives me another idea. One year I planted buckwheat as a cover crop and also because it was early in my gardening life at this home and I had decided to harvest the buckwheat and make flour out of it. Lots of work, and I didn't even have a grinder.

But the surprise was the cardinals loved the buckwheat. I may have written this before, but it's worth sharing again. In a 12' x 12' buckwheat patch, one day I saw 12 male cardinals feeding. I've NEVER seen that many cardinals together at one time.

If you can grow certain varieties of clover (another cover crop), the bees will love you for it., and you'll be helping provide food for a pollinator species.

Assuming they'll tolerate your climate, you could also plant some of the low growing herbs such as creeping thyme. I've always liked sweet alyssum and absolutely adore Lambs' Ears. Sweet woodruff is pretty. Can you grow Lenten Roses, or is it too warm in your area? Some of the new varieties are really beautiful.

I would in turn ask what you'd like to grow for food or for color, and choose those.

I also had fun growing basil and sage varieties, especially the tri-colored sage. Rue had beautiful leaves but an awful odor. And I loved the mints - the more mints the better. Unfortunately, they never became invasive and often couldn't even hold their own against other herbs. Even my apple mint struggles to compete with lemon balm, another of my favorites.

Or grow parsley and provide food for monarch caterpillars. I've used Artemisia for wreaths. Once I also grew an herb that smelled so much like pineapple. I thought it was Sweet Annie Artemisia but it might have been pineapple sage.

When I plant next year, I'm going to put in more herbs that can be made into oils and lotions, especially the mints as they're soothing to tired feet. I'm also hoping chocolate mint will decrease my appetite for the real food!

Just strolling through the garden and pinching little leaves of herbs is a mood relaxer.



I'm PM'ing you a link for a nursery that provides California tolerant ground covers.

I've never tried to make wine from grapes; the birds ate all the grapes before they were harvest ready. But I did use the grapevines to make a dozen or so wreaths every year.

GardenArtist, don't think Windy needs therapy, but I need gardening advice.
Running out of things to plant, should maybe try the chia seeds to plant as grass?
Or a chia-pet for Zink, the Skink.?
It was my husband who told me that wine-making from grapes is very stinky, so I won't be planting any grapevines. (Fermenting the grapes/smells).

GA, you are asking a perfectly reasonable Q and I am rather embarrassed to say that I don't recall offhand if the berries stay thru winter. I'll check tomorrow in the daylight. I quite like the bushes tho....they flower in the Spring and then have beautiful orange leaves in fall. My burning bushes are just starting to turn red....rather late as I've seen brilliant red bushes for at least 10 days.....maybe it's their location....near some larger trees, perhaps too shady?

Mina, do the berries on the serviceberry bush last throughout the winter? I'm thinking of adding more shrubs that provide birds food during the cold months. I already have some yews, which the robins seem to like, but I'd like a lot more bushes, preferably deciduous ones to provide some winter color.

I'm surprised your burning bushes haven't turned yet; we saw some back in September that were already a cheery crimson.

I, too, took the knit hat survey....interesting because I've always lived so near Canada (Buffalo and Rochester, NY, Burlington, VT, Michigan) that I've spent a lot of time in Canada, and, being a skier (downhill and cross-country)....toque is a very common term to me. OTOH.....cwillie, picturing you w/toque and mittens completing a last lawn mowing before winter did make me laugh....I may have been there myself before I gave in and hired a lawn and snow removal service....
My seviceberries have hardly any leaves left and it's barely mid-October.....glad I took a photo last year: full and bright orange....gorgeous....maybe it's all the wind we've had the last couple of weeks.....my burning bushes have only barely begun to turn that brilliant red even tho as I drive around, they've been bright red everywhere....sure hope mine turn before all their leaves drop....
As far as hair....HUH....on the average day, I descibe my style as "elevated bedhead (meaning I've combed it thru and shook my head) with a spritz of hairspray".....and, since I've got a hair appt. tomorrow.....that is for sure what it's going to be until I get to the salon (yeah!)....ha!ha!

Caregiving brings on different issues. On the DYS. thread we talk about cooking and other things. I think if you are comfortable, talk about it.

Tomorrow I am going to look for iris bulbs to plant. It is still in the 90's here, ugh!! Bring on Autumn and rain!!

Thanks, gladimhere,
I answered the survey questions and signed up to get the results when it's finished. I learned some new names for these hats.

LOL! Looked online to see the difference between a stocking cap, beanie, toque... What an education! Google "The Great Knitted Cap Survey".

Toque? Knitted? Close fitting to the head? Stocking cap, beanie in US?

Makes me think I should change my avatar again.

Thanks for your answers! I'm getting an education. So my hat hair is nothing unusual. What a nuisance! It calls for a shampoo and hair drying.

I like the sound of Indian summer.

ROFL
Up here they call that hat hair, in the winter you always need to weigh the pros and cons of wearing a hat in the winter.
A toque is a knit winter hat, sorry I don't know what you Americans call them!
Indian summer is a period of mild weather after the first frost.

Hmmm..cwillie, What, exactly, is an "Indian summer"? I am no authority about it being pc or not! And, to further impress you with my ignorance, what is a toque? A jacket of some kind?
I'm glad to hear you don't have to get everything done before this weekend. That takes the pressure off. But cutting the grass in the cold sounds like it could be miserable. Especially if there's a wind where it seems to seep in every crevice of your clothing and make you feel the cold. I hope that doesn't happen.

The last time I was north and took a long brisk walk for exercise, When I came inside and removed my gloves, coat and hat, my hair was in big, wet clumps! Sort of like dreadlocks! I had no idea it was so wet or that I was sweating from my head. Very strange. Then I was stuck having to wash it. I don't wish that on anyone, including you when mowing your lawn.

LOL Colorsue, I don't have to do all my Fall work before the frost, it's just a lot more pleasant to get as much done as I can while the weather is nice! I hope we will have a lot more time before the snow flies, maybe a nice Indian Summer (is it still PC to call it that?), but in the past I have been seen cutting the grass that one last time in mittens and a toque!

GA-
Hooray for the wooley bear caterpillars' return!! It's always a pleasure to cheer nature on!
Sendme, I hope the trellis gets finished just the way you want it and the alarm does it's job!
And cheers for our cooler weather that's more than welcome here! We can actually start to wear some clothes that aren't for super hot weather. Niiiice! We just can't stay in the sunny areas for too long if we don't want to burn, and the shade is wonderful. Every growing thing is still beautiful and colorful here. I can't complain.
If anybody actually shaves a cat, I want pictures!! They should be funny. Humor is great medicine.
My hubby wants to go to the the University of South Florida's semi-annual plant sale. Lots of beautiful and unusual plants and trees there. Lots of tropicals. People come with their own very large carts (must bring on trucks) to shop and haul them away full of plants. Maybe we'll go. We'll have to take the truck. It's a plant lover's dream just to be there.
cwillie--sorry about the necessary fall work on such short notice due to expected frost next weekend. I'm not familiar with that work but it sounds frustrating when the plants are still blooming.

I spent the afternoon yesterday digging up the dahlias, pulling up annuals and emptying pots in preparation for winter. I had the clever (I thought) idea of putting sweet potato slips in with my flowers, so I had to dump out the pots to see what I would get... not much, unfortunately! I didn't have the heart to pull up the zinnias and marigolds yet as they are still so pretty, but they are now predicting frost by next weekend so that may finish them. The trees aren't ready to drop their leaves yet, so lots of Fall work still ahead.

Garden Artist, yes, I use the small, portable alarms, battery operated. This one has a downside: The alarm goes off motion activated at the alarm, then I run outside with the remote (must be close to the alarm) to turn it off. What were they thinking???
Guess you will just have to shave the cats this year to get enough hair to scare away the critters. ( lol, I love cats too.)......

I wish I had an electric fence.

Coloresue, thanks for that, because I started it, messing up the peaceful tranquility of the garden therapy thread. It's not your fault, but thanks for that timely reply. Each person is unique, but especially with AS. So we came in, out of the garden where building an arbor trellis for the front porch shade and rain protection was NOT going well. (capitalization indicates shouting).
If it wasn't for you all, and this forum, I might just give up. But, I am liking my garden focus. Those new bouganvillas need extra water with the heat today. Thanks to the sweet one, he already gave them a drink. I just asked him.

Saw another woolly bear caterpillar today. This is the second time I've seen one this year, after not having seen any for years. It's really a pretty little creature.

Garden, I think we are in Zone 3. We have oodles of rabbits around here and for some reason it gets worse every year. So next year, I am putting up a fence. In addition, the soil in this area is dreadful despite the fact that we live on a morraine.

Sendme,
I didn't know "Shane" had Asperger's. I apologize if I said something inappropriate. I have a SIL and niece with it and they are able to tell others if they did something like rigging a car with bungee cords or similar things, thank goodness. I think they must have slighter cases of Asperger's compared to some other people. At least, that's the general consensus in our extended family.

So I understand a little and have researched this disorder a little bit, but not greatly.

The "just walking away" describes my husband, too! He's got severe hearing problems, often won't wear his hearing aids and has selective hearing and memory. It appears there's more than one way to get to the same results. Ooops, I sound like I belong on the "whine" thread. Enough. I hope you enjoy your garden plans and pumpkin carving!

GardenArtist and everyone: PUMPKIN CARVING AVATARS FOR CAREGIVERS, new discussion. It was their idea!

I wished I had an electric fence last year when I had squirrels destroying absolutely everything, even plants that were supposedly poisonous to them. I don't think they're barbaric, but then I grew up on a farm and managed to get zapped fairly often myself, not pleasant, but not really cruel unless the animal is too stupid to learn a lesson!

SendMe, the raccoons in my area haven't bothered the pumpkins (or corn) until the former is a few weeks to 1 week before being harvest ready, and the corn is a few days from being harvest ready. These smart little critters know enough to leave the green plants alone.

I've used fencing or chicken wire, and some folks use hoops to keep out the critters and also retain the heat. Sometimes it's hard to maneuver and anchor though.

Human or pet hair also will deter the raccoons. When I had cats, I saved their fur and rubbed it on the pumpkins. But that has to be done after every rain as the scent washes away. And when I had 28 pumpkins one year, I didn't have enough cat fur for all the pumpkins. Raccoons got about 1/4 of them that year.

I like the idea of alarming the pumpkins to keep the raccoons away. I'll have to try that. Do you use the small battery operated motion alarms?


Jazzy, without being personal, how rural and how far north are you? Are you in northern Canada? I'm in zone 5 - 6, with a summer sometimes too short for melons, but the squash do manage to mature.

Some gardeners do use electrified fences, which I find barbaric, unless they're rigged to active alarms or lights before the rabbits or other critters come in contact with the actual fencing.

I didn't mind the rabbits and grew extra for them until they began nibbling on a sweet little Wake Robin (a burgundy trillium) that appeared as a volunteer one Spring. I walked out 2 - 3 times a day to see the flowers. Then one day they were all gone. I put fencing around them to save the seeds, fenced them again next year and the blooms remained intact.

Up here where I lived in a rural community growing anything is a challenge. Tried growing green and red peppers but the rabbits got them. Did create a flower bed of impatience on the side of the house and wouldn' t you know...they're still
blooming.

Coloresue, no, aspergers won't tell you anything, not even when they do something good and sweet. Instead, he hides it. Even though that's not his name, Shane is a perfect nickname, as he walks away mid-conversation.

Garden Artist, thanks for answering about growing pumpkins, I will use a planter on the porch and try to fence off the baby punkins to protect them from the racoons. Also, using a high-pitched alarm at the front door, that'll scare them and me too! For some reason, being awakened at night doesn't seem to bother me as much anymore. If it is expected, planned for, it's just not that bad for me. I could garden in the moonlight if there were no black widow spiders. (Guess not, just another crazy idea).