Follow
Share
Read More
This discussion has been closed for comment. Start a New Discussion.
Find Care & Housing
You must have been tempted to flip him the finger. Yeah, sure, if he finds that kind of idea consoling or mood-lightening, whatever - it's still bloody rude; and it doesn't avoid the fact that you expressed the responsible approach.

But D. The thing is. You have over the years done sooooooo much for MIL that you are terribly out of practice at letting it go.

The dog, the dog. You have supported her in caring for her present dog. You can't and will not do that any more. You've said so. You've bow-wowed out, so to speak. Your next challenge is to close your ears to all further pet-related discussion. If H hasn't the sense to recognise that his mother can't cope as a dog-owner any more; if God forbid he's even fool enough to get her one... - but it doesn't matter. WHATEVER happens down the line, it is not your doing and not your problem.

When it comes to MIL's support services, you are from now on only a spectator. Work on it.
(5)
Report

I agree.

You can't get DH to " put his foot down" with his mom. You can only say " no, I can't go to vet/petsmart/groomer/healthfoodstore/".

My 87 yo ex-mil adopted a new dog the other day. She still lives independently and drives. All of her kids think the new dog is a dreadful idea, but there is no telling her no.

The only one you can change is you.
(0)
Report

Dorker - i mean this well. You need to stop adding any input - at all. If you are done - you are done. Stop being so invested in this with MIL. Just smile and don't say anything - you have told them you are done - they need to figure it out - let them. Stay out, say nothing, and hold your ground if they pressure you. From all of your posts - i think you are still very emotionally invested. Step back. Enjoy those grandkids.
(5)
Report

As long as she's husbands mother,IMO, Dorker is involved. Whatever she's no longer doing, H will have to do. It's the only way MIL's independent fantasy continues & for whatever reason her 2 children are vested in it. I could see how stepping back & biting your tongue would be difficult. Part of why this fantasy has worked is that they've shut their ears to all your alarms, because to hear it would mean having to admit MIL is not independent. Easier to let you handle it all these years. I agree assessment for depression would be important for someone that would comply & benefit but this woman won't comply with a walker or diuretics. A fools errand for sure. Dorker your stuck at the show but you've done your best to get her help. If/when the train wreck happens God help the soul that looks at you & says if only you would've _____, you could look back & say if only you would've insisted she get the help she needed & was unable to think clearly to accept but I told everyone she needed. It's like they are letting an 8yr old decide if he wants to go to school, eat nutritious meals, see doctors or bathe. Sadly at some point they can't decide anymore & that point is when they can't handle they're own life.
(1)
Report

Unfortunately the siblings have chosen to ignore you Dorker. Even H has the "wait, wish and we'll see" outlook  but he too wants to preserve her independence because that feeds the fantasy that the MIL can actually decide what is best for herself- d*mn the rest of the family!

They are both in denial, Dorker. 

I don't think there is much more you can do except wait for the catastrophe. Is H even aware of AL facilities in your area? I bet not.

I think it would be really hard for Dorker not to comment about the MIL at all; not sure it's do-able for you, Dorker. You have been their voice of reason all along but they haven't heard you.
Hard call, but I would stay the course, be polite with the H & SIL but stick to your principles.

Maybe go on the internet and research local AL, go on their websites and put your H & SIL on the AL mailing list so they get phamphlets they can review?

I would continue to dis -engage. The siblings need to stop wishing this will all go away and/or solve itself (didn't I read dying in her sleep in her own bed at home would be nice?). That's what the sibs are wishing for. In the meantime, no one is doing anything to solve this problem now that you have stepped out.

They are going to wait for you to step back in after the dd gets settled.

H & SIL keep chasing rainbows and MIL is calling the shots, watching her kids jump to her commands. 

MIL is their mother, bottom line. 

They need to do the stepping up, not you. 

Stay strong!!! You are doing great!
(3)
Report

Dorker, it seems as though you are perceived of as the voice of doom.

You've told them you are not running around anymore.

You've told them you think she needs more help.

Just step back. No need to comment on anything. The less you speak about mil, the more it becomes about MIL's needs and not you being right.
(4)
Report

I'm a little more optimistic. I think that as long as Dorker sticks to her guns, or anyway sits on her hands, H will be brought face to face with the sheer workload involved in indulging his mother and it will concentrate his mind wonderfully. He's only been able to shrug off the problem because Dorker has handled it; and once she stops doing so he'll have to think again. Not to be cynical or God forbid sexist, but husbands' problem-solving abilities can be a revelation when it's their own problems they're solving.
(5)
Report

I agree, CM. I also think that elderly mothers are much more accepting when their sons tell them that their current living situation isn't tenable.
(1)
Report

Dorker,
As long as you are viewed this way by your husband:
"H looked in my direction and said, "Says the wicked witch of the west .... ", speaking of me."

You will not be at peace so please try to move in with your daughter for a week to help her. That way, you won't hear anything about Mil for a week. Once you experience that space, the battle your Mil is waging against her son's wife
will be exposed for lack of an enemy.
(5)
Report

H's only saving grace that I have lived, he has not .... at this point .. his sister .. is so far underground right now entertaining her own family that at her residence, 1K miles away.

I don't even know, (and it's kind of nice actually) what the problem du jour may be with MIL today or yesterday, or tomorrow for that matter. You can bet, if SIL weren't covered up in entertaining her own family, I would know (or has been the case in the past). I would know every little hiccup that has occurred over the days .. as well as every anticipation of need that may or may not be necessary (deemed by SIL as to its relevance).

H has not had to ride that train. His sister has been busy with her own family, and hasn't been burning up the phone here, with "need".

I haven't yet gotten any practice at the whole, "gee better talk to H about that, can't help ya there". Her company will leave in a couple of weeks and I'm sure she'll take minute to catch her breath and then is when I will have to plaster those words on my forehead and say them often. Deferring to H.

Yes, it will be very hard, if not near impossible for me to remain silent. Being that I was, for so long, such an integral part of the whole scene. To just divorce myself completely and remain silent, seems uncaring, and that's not at all what any of this is about.

I asked H this morning ... "Have you talked to your mom since she was so overwrought about ______________being sick?, is she still on that whole thought process". He said no, he hadn't spoken to her. I left it alone. In this realm, it would be uncharacteristic of me to not even ask of her well being.

H may in passing mention, "sounds like mom needs me to go out there and look at ________________ it seems like it's not working right". That would be about typical.

Where the water hits the wheel here is going to be when his sister is free to once again blow up the phone(s) with need (her perception of need). And that then gets deferred to H. There is where I am going to have to get some real practice in deferring and I intend to do so.

It's as it should be. I, being an in-law .. shouldn't even be in the position of arguing a point with SIL as regards her mother (as to perceived need/vs want vs her worry/anguish over a given situation). The child-gate for instance. That should be between he and his sister.

It will get interesting, that's a given. H doesn't have time to answer to the incessant texting that goes on, nor is he prone to do so if he does have the time. He just isn't.

Every bit the worry-wart, teeth gnashing, hand wringing that his sister is, he is the opposite.

I think of the dog diapers I was sent to get. I argued the point with SIL (it was her worry about it). I argued the point, "the dog lets her know that he needs to get out, and for God's sake, the dog can be isolated .. he's having problems that he is urinating incessantly .. put the dog out into the b'yard more frequently .. and leave him, he will live, make sure there is water for the dog .. that takes care of her having to get up and down to let the dog in and out .. and the fact that she's so slow .. that she can't get there in time .. the dog let's her know, it's not that he's incontinent .... with her arthritic hands, I'm not even sure she can do what she needs to put a diaper on the dog anyway. She can put the dog to bed, at night, in her shower.

All things MIl was unwilling to do.

But I can jump through the hoop of going to get doggy diapers, ... that she likely won't even be able to put on the dog, and are useless.

All points above, that I argued, with SIL.

SIL's rebuttal .. "well if he has doggie diapers on, maybe if she can't get him to the door fast enough, at least there won't be a soiled floor for her to clean, I worry that she's going to fall .. you know she can barely stay upright, much less stooping over to clean urine off the floor.

This was all months back when her dog was so sick.

I then argued, .. "I'm sure the vet would be willing to board him as long as need be, until this can be resolved, if it's a concern she's going to fall".

Argument from SIL: "No, OMG .. if she doesn't have her little buddy there with her, .. she'll just curl up and die .. you know, he's like a baby to her .. that's her companion".

Off I went, to Petsmart, to go buy doggie diapers and haul them out to her. Doggie diapers are purchased by weight of the dog. I knew the dog weighs about 30 lbs give or take. But what I didn't account for was the fact that the dog is small .. but 30 lbs (overweight for his size dog). And so the 30 lb size, didn't fit his girth. Back to Petsmart, and then back out to MIL's with a larger size doggie diaper.

In the end, the bag sat un-used. I showed her how to do it, by putting one on him .. and demonstrating how it's done. She wasn't able to do so, her arthritic hands being the impediment to same. They never got used, as I said they wouldn't.

The above, would be a very interesting conversation were it to have been between H and his sister. I don't know for certain, but I would just about bet that he wouldn't entertain the notion of going to purchase doggie diapers. He damn sure wouldn't of dropped everything to do so, even if he did agree to such a premise. And when he got there and found the size doesn't fit the dog, that would've been the end of that story. I don't know, can't even imagine, what he'd of offered as an alternative, if any, to allay his sister's anguish over it all.

These and so many more conversations, it will be interesting to be the fly on the wall to how H reacts.

I do know his "go to" move will be, "My sister is texting me .. something about doggie diapers and the dog urinating everywhere, can you get ahold of her, and see what it is she's talking about, maybe it's something you can take care of for mom".

When he hears back from me, "Already deferred that to you, not doing it".

Then there will be a p*ssing match, if you will. "Why not?, .. she is out there stooping over and so forth to clean up dog urine off the floor and she's going to fall doing that, .. just go do it ... maybe it will help alleviate all of that".

My argument, "It's senseless, .. she isn't going to use them, her arthritic hands won't allow it .. and the dog lets her know ... and it's been my advice that she isolate the dog more than she's been willing to do, no .. I'm not doing it, you want the dog to have doggie diapers to alleviate the concern, go for it".

That's when H will likely get ugly with me ... not his mother .. not his sister .. me. Why me? Because I'm the path of least resistance. His sister will harangue til the "task" at hand is seen to, his mother will complain incessantly that she is so weary and so tired, and just past the point of going with this dog that is ill .. and so the path of least resistance will be the one that gets the wrath for it.

Honest to Pete .. I'm not looking for a fight, I'm not looking to be "right".

This, to me, is just one of many many numerous examples (albeit a small one/minor) of the fallacy of "independent living". Where her so called "independent living" has to be propped up. Just a very minor small one, . of so so many.

Myself, I am able/willing .. if I owned a dog .. and the dog were having these problems, I could .. if I so chose, .. make my way to the pets store and get doggie diapers .. if that's what I chose to do. I wouldn't be "dependent" upon some one else to make that happen for me. I am "independent".

In my estimation of the whole scenario above .. the onus shouldn't be on someone else (me) to help resolve this. The MIL should be willing to do what is necessary as in isolate the dog more, and/or pay for boarding the dog until the dog is better.

THAT to me is "independent", resolving it yourself.

It's such a minor blip .. that whole scenario on the larger screen of what goes on.

Unfortunately, it gets turned into, or it will, some scenario that is similar .. a p*ssing match, a power struggle. Seen as "oh because she won't do things YOUR way .. then you aren't going to help".

No, .. that isn't it at all. It's a matter that this is one of a million other things that prop up what you guys refer to as her latitude to live independently and it's not, at all, independent. But it's all fine and good as long as I will keep hopping to the beat of that drum.

Not looking forward to it.

Tired today .. maybe frazzled. The newborns have come to life, as they will, and at night. Days/nights confused maybe. I don't do the night feedings, wee hours of the AM .. that's between dd and her husband to figure out. But that doesn't mean I don't hear the cries of the newborns through the night. Seems they crank up and get fussy long about 11 or so .. and on it goes from there.

They are, dd and her husband, to go tonight, to the new residence, and begin taking a stab at, nightly, is their plan .. getting things out of boxes and put away where they belong and getting some semblance of order and organization to what will be their home, so they can then head that way. Leaving the kids with us, so they can take a few hours nightly, going forward, to get things moving in the direction to set up their household.

I love them all dearly and this time with the newborns is absolutely precious and great memories. But it is also very taxing. The 4 yo .. more whiney and cranky than she normally would be (understandable, . .. she's uprooted from where she knew as home, has two new siblings to contend with where she was formerly the star of the show .. and a mommy that is less than stellar these days as to stepping with it). But she is cranky, and whiney these days .. maybe she too, sleep disturbed. I wouldn't trade any of it, for anything. But it is taxing, for certain.
(1)
Report

I read this sentence:

"I think of the dog diapers I was sent to get."

And then I sat and stared at the wall for a bit. Then I read it again, and the rest of the episode.

Dorker. For me, the equivalent low point was when my (ex, note) husband insisted that I taste our toddler's banana. It was a nice banana, undamaged, just ripe, and I had that moment peeled it. Not good enough - he insisted that it had to be tasted, to be certain it wasn't poisoned or rotten, but for some reason - not sure we even got this far - it wasn't proper for him to taste it and it had to be me.

Yeah, my story is completely bonkers too, isn't it.

The dog diapers you were sent to get. Under protest, and - in God's name - with all reason on your side. And you still went to get the [expletive deleted] things.

Your SIL is an accomplished arm-twister, I'll give her that. You are going to have to get in some serious training to win this battle.

So while we've got some time in hand, try some practice phrases. Starting with:

"No."

You say no, and then you *shut* *up*. You don't argue. You don't justify. You don't elaborate. You say "no." And you mean it.

Rehearse this, using scenes from earlier times, until it starts to feel natural.
(3)
Report

Oh it will take some serious practice. Without a doubt, I know that to be true. People pleasers .. the word "no" isn't in their vocabulary.

To say "no", nothing further. Just "no".

It gets followed with "why not?". Therein lies all the justifying and arguing the point. If one can just say merely "no", and the requester then walks away, fine and good. But it doesn't happen that way. Not when you have been the front line to it all for eons.

It's followed with a "why not".

Yes, I have an uphill battle in front of me, for sure!
(0)
Report

Why not?

No.

But you can't just say no like that! You have to have a reason! Mother needs these! Why won't you help?

It is absurd. The answer is "no."

It's better than her falling.

I'm not getting these things. The answer is 'no.'

etc etc etc

No.
The answer is no.
I'm saying no.

You will eventually hear [wailing] WHY ARE YOU BEING LIKE THIS???

At that point you must remember, as we discussed previously, that your SIL is most unused to dissent and it has come as a shock to her. Make allowances.

Say: I have come to my senses. Try not to worry, everything will be fine. I'll talk to you later.
(3)
Report

I think I might look for a job so that you were more permanently unavailable to these folks.
(3)
Report

"No" is a complete sentence.

Why are you explaining yourself? Just because they've always gotten an explanation from you does not mean they are entitled to it.

And if at first you do feel the need to give a reason, have fun with it!
"I have to wash my hair."
"I'm taking a knitting class."
"I'm volunteering at a nursing home."
"I'm training for a marathon."
(1)
Report

Husband "will get ugly with me"?

What does that mean? That you "have" to do any fool's errand his OCD sister sends you on? Does he yell and scream? Withhold your weekly allowance?

I'd DEFINITELY be looking for a job.......
(1)
Report

Dorker - this "no" business will be hard.
Can you....? "No, I'm not able to".
Why not? "unfortunately I do not have time but I'm sure Amazon would deliver for your mom".
Why are you being like this? "I have my daughter and grandkids who need me"
Why can't you just do this? "you will have to work with H on that"
Hang up.

stuff you have already stated. You do NOT need to justify yourself. It took me a good six months, therapy, and role play with the therapist before I successfully set a boundary with my mom. I was giddy with joy and said "no" at every opportunity - just like a toddler. My husband caught on and used it with his overbearing parents. We finally were able to set and enforce boundaries.

Yes, some conversations were ridiculous.
"why not?" "I just can't"
"I'm asking you why not" "I told you I'm not able to, I have to go now" and hang up.
disengaging is how you will win - end the call, leave the room, don't get into it.

I upset my mom with all of the "gotta go now, love you" and leaving or hanging up - but eventually she learned. So did my husband's parents.

We still do some things for them, but it is our choice!
(1)
Report

No that only means that he will then be angry and so forth because he will have to step up, that's the bottom line. Step up and either squelch your sister .. or your mother .. or do it yourself. That's the bottom line in the end.

I left a job (not to say I can't find another one), about 2 years ago (it was an awful job .. one I loathed). My workdays were 10 hour days .. and my days off were Wed, Thurs, and Sunday. I was spending my days off, not even kidding, in persuit of MIL's doc visits and her well being. Not always, that would've been absolutely preposterous. But yes, a lot of times, .. I'd find myself on my days off .. Wed and Thurs .. having to haul her to doc appts, and/or some other errand, or five.

That isn't the reason I quit that job .. I hated that job. I quit it because I hated it. BUT ... also because my husband needed my help with his business (found that a lot of times on my days off .. I would be doing for the business, the office stuff), stuff I couldn't do on a normal workday for me. He needed my help in the business and so we made the decision that I would quit that job . Get another job? That was a .. wait and see how it all works.

It has worked. I think that, in general .. H likes it that he can call upon me, .. pretty much at will, for something biz related (couldn't do that when I was working previously, I was on the company dime at that point, not his). I like the flexibility that I have working for our small biz. There are things I'm responsible to do, but I can do them, for the most part, when it works for me.

No H doesn't give me any weekly allowance per se. I kinda do the budget and finances for our biz and household, so if I spend us into the ditch .. then it's on me. So, there wouldn't be any withholding of "allowances".

But he would definitely be putting me on a guilt trip .. with the whole, "You know I have e-d*mn-nough to do .. I don't have time for this chit". Sorta thing. As to his mother's bidding, via his sister. That's about where that lands.
(0)
Report

Dorker, you're being triangulated. It's a really bad place to be in. In your shoes, i would invest some time and money in seeing a therapist, if only to have a safe place to role play and set boundaries.

If you were only doing this with ocd sil and martyr mil, it would be relatively easy. But this is your marriage were talking about.

If you think hubby is going to guilt you over this and try to dump his sister's and mother's needs in your lap, I'd say you'd be wise to get some professional support.
(3)
Report

I understand what you mean Dorker, because this MIL situation is going to upset the normal balance of the status quo in your home life. Small business owners and not to generalize, but men in general are wired differently; they need their lives outside of work to be on an even keel, & they need strong spouses to prop them up.

This time, it is NOT your mother. You cannot decide this- your H & his sister must. Your H doesn't have patience or time for this?

Well, that's too darned bad. It's your husband's to own this, he and his sister. And the sooner the better. He needs to step up & work it out with his family- mom, sister & him. 

Oh I dread when SIL is back en force texting. It's going to be hard for you. Maybe you can begin practicing. But you can give responses quoted above - " I can't " & no need to explain. 

Stand your ground. The H can do it - push him to do it on his own. Encourage them to work together and get a plan. 
(1)
Report

Oh I will, practice the "I can't", and "no", and also work on my own .. not triangulating.

Won't do me any good to then be texting H and "can you believe your sister wants me to do ____________ and ____________, no ... I told her to call you".

Will have to work on my own NOT doing that. He either hears from her and chooses to respond or not. Not on me whether "perceived" need is met or not.
(1)
Report

Dorker, I'm not suggesting that YOU triangulate anyone.

What I'm saying is that YOU are being triangulated.

Example. SIL texts you that MIL needs x, something you know won't work. You pass her off to DH, who responds to this " need" ( perceived only by sil, we all know mil will refuse to use it) by asking YOU to acquire said item.

You say no.
DH responds, why not?
You say no. Just no.
DH explodes, "don't you love my mother? " Or
"I don't have time for this $hit. Don't I bring in the money? Why aren't you being a team player and helping?"

I think you are going to end up in an uncomfortable situation down he road when you are being put in the position of saying "no" to your husband. Just my two cents.
(4)
Report

I agree Dorker's husband will have a cow about the "no" at some point. Perhaps at that point - Dorker can state that simply passing around the duties is not a long term solution - that brother and sister need to talk seriously about it and come up with a plan. she is helping their daughter and grandchildren. I hope Dorker can come through all of this with peaceful relationship with her husband and MIL finally getting care.
(5)
Report

I hope so too, Kimberly!
(0)
Report

I hope so. The fact of the matter is that it's no longer tenable that I continue to provide the level of care that was being requested of me (some of it superfluous). My speaking up and saying more measures need to be enacted, did no good.

So what's my choice. Keep throwing teaspoons of water at a raging fire, as was previously mentioned. Or keep b*tching and griping (that does no good). What's my choice? I have to back away.

I don't for a minute, think it will be a cake walk. I'm almost sorry at this point that I was the dependable "go to" for so so long. Shouldn't of been. It looks as though all that did was set up expectation that as need increases, I will continue to increase the contributions. That is false.

Yes, I'm absolutely certain I will hear .. more than once ... some version of, "you know I'm too busy for this crap, I don't have time for this".

Or

"Don't you love my mom?".

Yes, for sure.

I don't know what choice I have here, other than continue to be the indentured servant to this problem that is growing in need.

I have to back away and doing that, .. and just saying "no", .. it will, for sure, result in some argument here. Not looking forward to it.
(3)
Report

Fortunately you have time now to get a script or a plan in place while the little ones are settling in, plus you said you too are exhausted. They will be leaving soon - are you going to help dd at her new abode? Stay a few weeks?
Try to get a good night's sleep. You have to be rested to take all this on.
In the meantime you can review the great suggestions above and get a plan together for yourself to get through it, which you will, of course.
So far so good these past few days with her (MIL)  But it isn't over by no means!
Hang in there but brace for some opposition arriving on the horizon.
I would go to dd house with the new babies and the little one for a few weeks. She needs you especially as she can't lift due to the c-section.
(1)
Report

It's not only the day to day errands that he will be call upon to do, but he will need to make that miserable transition to making more decisions for her. For example, parents refusing to use a walker puts the adult child at risk when he goes to catch her when she falls, especially if she's holding his arm. My husband started quietly popping the walker into the car, despite my FIL protestations he'd be fine with the cane. He explained it was for both their safety. It was terribly difficult for him emotionally to begin these small role reversals, but he's gotten more used to it.
(5)
Report

My boarders and newborn babies have gone home to their house as of tonight.

I will still be helping out during the day hours, as needed. But want to back up enough at this point to give dd the space/time she needs to get her bearings with it all, as best she can.

Helped her all day today .. as they put the final touches on unpacking and making beds, etc etc., to take up residency there. Stayed on the scene there to help and mind babies. And tomorrow will be much the same, doctor appts, etc.

No word on the MIL front, and that's likely because SIL is underground caring for and enjoying her own family 1K miles away. It's been great.

I am beyond exhausted. There is a reason God gives babies to young folks. Enjoy those babies thoroughly, but between them and the 4 yo, I am dragging tired.

Maybe now that my household is back to it's normalcy .. I can get a little more rest. I hope.
(7)
Report

Dorker, it's quite interesting that when SIL is busy, MIL doesn't need tending to. Maybe the strategy needs to be ignore SIL, respond only to MIL!
(5)
Report

Barb, if you only knew how true that statement is. There have been a few times that SIL is out of pocket entirely over the last several years. And each time .. she might as well have left our planet as to her involvement.

She went to where her son lives, .. a few years ago .. for a 3 week visit. Out of pocket entirely. Same thing happens when son and his family visit here, which only occurs about once a year. She went to Europe for a 3 week vacation a couple of years ago, .. same thing. Out of pocket. Phone doesn't blow up with incessant demand.

I'm quite sure she is ck'g in with her mom, .. maybe even more than once a day. But what of all the "perceived" need. I have no clue. I guess because SIL is otherwise occupied, nothing is earth shattering ...???.... as to SIL's perception of what we need to do as to hoops to jump through. Not sure.
(2)
Report

This discussion has been closed for comment. Start a New Discussion.
Start a Discussion
Subscribe to
Our Newsletter